Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Dashdar » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:18 am

knaughty wrote:
Shoju wrote:It is just irritating that it needs to be Solo queue. That is really where it fails for me.


That's the main part that makes it a logical idea.

A large part of the reason the DPS queue is so freaking long is that tanks can share their zero minute queue with their friends. You're reducing their heal/DPS queue length to nothing at the expense of other heal/DPS.


It would still make sense if they made it not a guild group. Better to get some of the DPS in than none at all.

And what if it's a Tank and a Healer who want to Q together? That would maximize the inclusion of DPS w/o hurting healers too much because their Q times are not very high.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby valura » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:24 am

Looks great... but, it's not much of an incentive when your main is a tank, already in possesion of 115 mounts and 115 pets...

Agreed, getting an additional 5 pets as well as another 10 mounts from AT, and a chance of getting Stratholme mount sounds appealing, but if I really wanted them, I'd go farm them.

One concern is where they mention the goodies might include mounts/pets that are currently only obtainable by doing a long and tedious grind. That seems like a slap in the face of people who actually went to the trouble of farming said rep, and (sometimes) paying a lot of gold for the mounts/pets.

I mean, farming rep till exalted with Wyrmrest Accord and pay 1600g to get Red Drake =/= doing a random dungeon with 0 Wyrmrest Accord, and getting the Red Drake for free! (And just incase anyone wonders where I get the idea from; the post mentions the Tiny Sporebat, which requires exalted with Sporeggar, clearly indicating they intend the rewards to include reputation based mounts/pets)

Another concern is that they haven't mentioned the randomness of said goodies. Will the game just randomly reward you with a pet, or will it check your current pets and give you one not already in your possession. The same obviously goes for mounts. I mean, I grinded Sethekk Halls over 90 times to get Raven Lord, and it would totally piss me off if I would get it from the DF:CtA reward :?
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Dashdar » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:27 am

valura wrote:Another concern is that they haven't mentioned the randomness of said goodies. Will the game just randomly reward you with a pet, or will it check your current pets and give you one not already in your possession. The same obviously goes for mounts. I mean, I grinded Sethekk Halls over 90 times to get Raven Lord, and it would totally piss me off if I would get it from the DF:CtA reward :?


Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort.

Looks like it will not consider things like that, currently.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Malthrax » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:38 am

Shoju wrote:If they offer the Skadi Mount, maybe. 125 kills of skadi, and no mount. I haven't farmed Anzu as hard in the past couple of months. But the skadi mount, that would be very enticing. I have Kael'thas and Deathcharger mounts already.

It is just irritating that it needs to be Solo queue. That is really where it fails for me.


Up the stakes to a shot at a Black Q'raji Battle-Tank, and I'll queue.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Aerron » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:47 am

valura wrote:One concern is where they mention the goodies might include mounts/pets that are currently only obtainable by doing a long and tedious grind. That seems like a slap in the face of people who actually went to the trouble of farming said rep, and (sometimes) paying a lot of gold for the mounts/pets.

I mean, farming rep till exalted with Wyrmrest Accord and pay 1600g to get Red Drake =/= doing a random dungeon with 0 Wyrmrest Accord, and getting the Red Drake for free! (And just incase anyone wonders where I get the idea from; the post mentions the Tiny Sporebat, which requires exalted with Sporeggar, clearly indicating they intend the rewards to include reputation based mounts/pets)


and none of that has ever stopped Blizzard before. Ground out all that rep with the Kaluilui Walrus ppl to get your super cool fishing pole? Well, now one pretty much just as good drops out of random fishing daily reward bags.

Paladin and Warlock mount quests, summoning Anzu, etc. Convenience becomes the keyword when the content involved is no longer fresh.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Aanar » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:00 am

This may be a bit of a pre-emmptive move too. With random heroics going to a weekly cap instead of a daily, I was expecting that quite a few groups would re-que together to do a 2nd or 3rd one in whole or part if the run went smooth. This could have the result of increasing dps queue times (but once you're in, hopefully your group would run another). With this change, there's more incentive for the tank to drop and re-queue for a fresh group.

Though, the rewards are modest and if I had a steamroll good group, I'd probably be inclined to forgo the goodie bag and just queue for another if I was focussing on VP grinding.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Flex » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:02 am

Can we get a forum filter that replaces "slap in the face" with "kittens and puppies are cute"?
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby knaughty » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:08 am

Dashdar wrote:
knaughty wrote:That's the main part that makes it a logical idea.

A large part of the reason the DPS queue is so freaking long is that tanks can share their zero minute queue with their friends. You're reducing their heal/DPS queue length to nothing at the expense of other heal/DPS.


It would still make sense if they made it not a guild group. Better to get some of the DPS in than none at all.

And what if it's a Tank and a Healer who want to Q together? That would maximize the inclusion of DPS w/o hurting healers too much because their Q times are not very high.


If you want to queue together, queue together.

If you want bag of goodies, you queue solo and four people from the queue get a tank. Not three. Not two. Not one. Four.

Maximum benefit to the queue is their desired outcome. This provides their desired outcome. Four > three.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Skye1013 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:09 am

FYI... it takes less than a day to farm Sporeggar rep... I did it on my DK recently ("Now that we're still friends..." takes all of about 5 minutes to pick up, one shot the mobs, and turn in)... so some people have a RNG chance to "save" that day of farming... by farming 85 heroics instead, what's the big issue here? Even with mounts, assuming the chance for a mount to drop is about what it is from running the actual dungeons they drop from... then how much farming would it take to get ALL of the mounts you're looking for JUST from DF:CtA, while still risking the chance for duplicates? Sure you can use DF:CtA multiple times per day, but that's still at the opportunity cost of whatever you would normally be doing (farming old dungeons for the same mounts, gathering supplies for your raid, leveling/gearing alts, AH PvP etc.)

Edit: Typo fixes
Last edited by Skye1013 on Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby knaughty » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:09 am

Flex wrote:Can we get a forum filter that replaces "slap in the face" with "kittens and puppies are cute"?


Someone start a Kickstarter group to fund this excellent enhancement idea.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Nikachelle » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:16 am

Malthrax wrote:
Shoju wrote:If they offer the Skadi Mount, maybe. 125 kills of skadi, and no mount. I haven't farmed Anzu as hard in the past couple of months. But the skadi mount, that would be very enticing. I have Kael'thas and Deathcharger mounts already.

It is just irritating that it needs to be Solo queue. That is really where it fails for me.


Up the stakes to a shot at a Black Q'raji Battle-Tank, and I'll queue.

Makes me wonder why some things are still sacred, while others aren't. Like why the hell does Molten Core still need attunement when there isn't another raid in the game that needs it.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby twinkfist » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:21 am

all i know is that i am a fan of this idea. huge fan.

if i go with my guild members i'm usually on my enhance shaman or i go ret because ret is my favorite but im a good tank so i usually offer.

but, i love tanking with 4 randoms because...i don't know...it's a challenge. if i get 4 people...three dps that are doing 7k and a healer that is meh...it makes it that much more fun and more of a challenge. even places like brd where people still can't do the beams...i'm all for that run.

this is a really good idea.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Dashdar » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:06 am

knaughty wrote:If you want to queue together, queue together.

If you want bag of goodies, you queue solo and four people from the queue get a tank. Not three. Not two. Not one. Four.

Maximum benefit to the queue is their desired outcome. This provides their desired outcome. Four > three.


Yes 4 is greater than 3, but don't think that means a solo queue will always provide maximum benefit to the queue. Healers do not have a queue time that is as bad as the DPS, and they may even be the CTA class at times. This fix seems to be much more focused on getting more DPS into heroics and getting them geared up at a rate that more resembles what Tanks and Healers enjoy.

I don't really want to run with a pure pug group. If others feel the same as I, having the requirement be "not a guild group" could increase the numbers of players who get ques. They would be able to either join a Tank + 4 or a Tank + Friend + 3.

The Tank + Friend +3 would also still provide the maximum +15% Luck of the Draw bonus for being in a pug group. So I don't really see it as a disadvantage if it means more tanks would queue would would not otherwise.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Malthrax » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:14 am

Don't fool yourselves. This change will not appreciably increase the number of tanks queueing up for randoms via LFD. Not over the long term. Probably not over the short term either.

Just chalk it up to being a "token effort" by Blizzard to appease a few million whining, guildless, poor-quality DPSers.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Senador » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:18 am

While I’m not certain to how much it will help; I’m sure some will do it, which alone will help alleviate some of the queue issues.

However, I think that the “cosmetic” rewards, the mounts and pets, should actually extend below 85 and either cover the whole way up or maybe 30 up (After dual spec is available). One of the inherent causes to lack of tanking and to an extent healing at 85, is that many people level as DPS, go the whole way up, hit 85 and go “Well, I can start now, but where do I start with it?” By opening up the additional rewards at lower levels it offers incentives for lower level characters to experiment or learn tanking as they level, instead of making it a completely top heavy learning experience while also hopefully making it so that some of those who try out tanking may find that they really enjoy it and continue with it. It also might provide some of those new tanks hitting the 85s and heroics to have a little more experience behind them making the whole thing flow smoother.

Also, by offering it at the lower levels it helps incentivize healers as well, since there are several points where healers are as rare, or if not more so than tanks (I’m looking at you level 58 to 63) and hopefully will get more people into those roles as well.
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