Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

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Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

Postby DexterBelgium » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:43 am

Found this on the US forums via a repost of it on the EU forums. A rare gem of someone really putting to words, without overstating our importance, what the tanking mindset is, and why we do what we do and how we do it. Should be a required read for PuG DPS, Heals and tanks tbh.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1577525240
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Re: Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

Postby sherck » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:36 am

I hate to ask; and the mods can shoot me down, but would it be possible to cut and paste the original post and PM it to me? I am firewall challenged at work.

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Re: Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

Postby Aubade » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:46 am

Inc: wall of Text.

Blizzard Forums - Sceilence wrote:“I tank, therefore I am…at least in WoW”
– Renee Descartes (or someone like him)

I have played this game since launch, and I have played this character since Blackwing Lair was endgame content. I have never been in a server-leading progression guild, but I have led raiding guilds working their own progression, usually a tier behind the curve or so. In Wrath, I had all three plate-wearing classes at the level cap, specced and geared for tanking. I am a self-admitted idiot at DPS or healing; for some reason, my brain just won’t function properly in those roles. But so far as it goes, I’m pretty well versed in tanking in this game.

I have recently noticed a number of instances, in-game and in the forums, where 1) people are asking for advice on tanking because they’re new to it, 2) DPS or healers are complaining about tanks because they are being bossy or dictatorial, and 3) tanks are complaining about DPS for…being DPS. Several of these questions and comments have been addressed from the perspective of mechanics, but only rarely do the responses really touch on the theoretical foundation of tanking, or what I have come to call the Tao of Tanking. This post is intended to address this gap.

I am not a Theorycrafter. I leave that kind of thing to much more dedicated and talented individuals. I would recommend Elitist Jerks and Tankspot for guidelines on mechanics-related specifics, should you have questions on exactly how to maximize your threat or what the best tanking build is for your class. I am also not God’s Gift to Tanking, and frankly, I would question anyone who tried to tell you they were. From my perspective, tanking is a mindset, much like political affiliation; nobody is ever actually right (no pun intended), but people can certainly be wrong.

The purpose of this post is to put into writing some of the philosophy behind tanking. I expect that it will be exceedingly droll for people who have been tanking for quite a while, because they’ve probably got this figured out. It could, however, provide some insight for people new to tanking, or to DPS/healers who would like to understand why tanks act the way we do.

On Leadership

“Go slow. Finish fast.”
- Sun Tzu (or someone like him)

The tank’s role in 5-man content is, in my opinion, the most critical role in the group. My rationale for this statement is that for whatever reason, the WoW-playing community has effectively nominated the position of tank as the defacto leader. Six years of social reinforcement has all but made this a universal truth. Can other positions take the responsibility of leader? Of course! Do they? Not often. Particularly within the PUG Nation, the assumption is that the tank will shoulder that responsibility. Some do it well. Others, not so much.

To paraphrase a comment by Shortshank in this thread: “When the fight runs like a well-oiled machine, it is because the DPS are the engine, the healers are the gas, and the tank does the steering.” I understand (and agree with) the argument that without a healer, there is no victory, and without DPS, there is no victory. No tank is going to hit the level cap and then go solo a Heroic. However, I view the complexity for any given role in a group as largely determined by the amount of responsibility the player has to take for other people in order for the group to succeed.

The DPS player has only to:

Do any CC they’re asked to do
Interrupt as needed
Do damage to the appropriate target
Stay out of the fire


The DPS player does not have to take responsibility for any other member of the group (though really exceptional players will find a way to do this - these players are truly treasured gems that should always be appreciated).

The healer, on the other hand, has to:

Do any CC they’re asked to do
Stay out of the fire
Make sure that nobody’s hit points get to zero before the pull is ended


The healer takes responsibility for other people by healing them when they take unnecessary damage (taking cleave hits, standing in fire, pulling threat from the tank…I could go on and on here); in this way the healer is taking up some of the slack created by poorly performing DPS (or tanks).

By comparison, the tank has to:

Assign CC targets based on mob type/group composition
Make sure everyone in the party is ready for the pull (particularly, the healer has mana)
Pull the group, often in some elaborate fashion that creates separation between the CCed mobs and the active mobs
Establish and maintain threat on all active mobs
Interrupt as needed
Position the mobs to reduce splash damage to alleviate healer’s workload
Apply appropriate defensive debuffs to alleviate healer’s workload
Pick up broken CC before it WTFPWNs someone
Pop defensive cooldowns at the most appropriate time, usually to lower the healer’s blood pressure
Direct the other party members through those “oops” moments (i.e., the infamous hunter “Where’s My Pet?” scenario)


If you buy into this model, generally speaking, a DPS player takes responsibility for him/herself, the healer takes responsibility for the party’s health, and the tank takes responsibility for everything else.

And even if you don’t buy into this model, chances are, your tank does. There's even blue support for the statement:

Nethaera wrote:I'm just pointing out that there is an expectation for tanks for the leaders generally speaking. It's intimidating for those that want to play this role and difficult to get others to step forward and lead instead of the tank. We've (including myself) grown comfortable in these types of expectations, and we need to address it as a community. So we either help people learn to be leaders so we all shoulder the task equally, or we continue to expect too much of each other.



This is why the tank starts looking through the combat log after a wipe – they want to figure out what happened, so they can appropriately address any apparent issues and avoid another wipe.

This is also why the tank asks the one question healers hate to hear after a wipe: “So, uh…what happened?” The inevitable response is: “Uh, you ran out of hit points?”

Of course I ran out of hit points. But why? Were you busy healing one of the DPS because he was standing in fire? Was there some debuff that needed to be cleansed but wasn’t? Did you run out of mana because you were spamming flash heal? Where other members of the party may be willing to dismiss the causes of a wipe or a bad pull, the tank refuses to do so, because all tanks know this one fundamental truth: “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, but expecting different results”. Loosely translated, this means that the tank doesn’t want to repeat that horrible experience again, and is looking for input on avoiding doing so. So give your response some thought before pointing out the obvious.


On Threat, Crowd Control, and DPS

“If the DPS pulls agro off of me, it’s obvious that they wanted it more than I did, and who am I to deny them something they want so much?”
– Ghengis Khan (or someone like him)



A priest friend was talking about how heroics are pretty brutal right now. He said that tanks are having a hard time with the instance. Here’s the gist of that conversation:

Me: “Yeah, I bet. So is the tank marking mobs?”
Friend: “Of course not.”
Me: “Ahhh. So is there any crowd control happening?”
Friend: “Of course not.”
Me: “I see. Are the DPS assisting the tank for a target and focusing DPS on that target?”
Friend: “Of course not.”
Me: “I see.” <pause> “So…are you still pulling the next group before the current group is dead because you’re bored?”
Friend: <pause> “Well…hey, shut up, man.”

One thing everyone needs to understand, and this goes for the tanks, the healers, the DPS, everyone, is that trash is no longer a speed bump between you and the boss mob’s loot table. This is no longer the WoW that has been played for the last two years. The Wrath model for the game was discarded by Blizzard, and AOE grinding instances is a thing of the past. Yeah, at some point tanks will have the gear to survive pulling the entire group without CC, and healers will have the gear to heal through such pulls, but even under those circumstances it will be more efficient to single target than AOE DPS, because Blizzard doesn’t want AOE DPS to actually do anything anymore.

I think what really needs to happen in the game is a paradigm shift. Everyone needs to step away from the view that being a good DPS player is represented in the numbers posted by Recount, and embrace that a good DPS player is someone who avoids taking unnecessary damage, does a good job with CC (both performing and not breaking it), does respectable damage, and has the ability to think outside the box. Honestly, this is the level of expectation placed on tanks and healers, so why have we allowed DPS to be gauged solely on their damage output?

I have a mage and a ret paladin that I group with regularly. The pally has been playing since launch, and the mage just started in Wrath (3.1 or so). For nearly two years I have heard them arguing constantly about overall damage done according to Recount. With this expansion, they are having a hard time beating my damage output when it comes to overall instance damage done according to Recount. This has caused absolutely no end of argument and frustration for them, which in turn frustrates me, because I just don’t care about overall damage done for an instance. Show me your l33t skills by not dying to your own stupidity, by be a benefit to the party rather than a hindrance, and by doing some decent measure of DPS. DPS players that do this are like liquid gold.

The fixation players have on damage meters is probably one of the single largest causes for the ineptitude encountered in random groups. DPS players want to prove their worth in the group. As established previously, it’s not hard to prove the tank’s worth, or the healer’s worth. DPS have to work at it. Enter, the DPS meter. Now we have PROOF of how important we are to the group! We have numbers to back it up!

Yes. And sadly, Recount provides me with some equally interesting numbers. For example, I can see that I’m still at the top of the chart in interrupts, because I’m the only one doing it. I can see that the healer is spending entirely too much mana healing your stupid ass. And if you keep playing like an idiot, I’m going to start seeing you climb the charts in total number of deaths as well.

I tank with the understanding that many DPS characters can pull agro off of me whenever they really want to. This is less of a concern at this point in an expansion, where the gear differential is not significant. As that gear difference becomes more pronounced and as DPS players in Tier 18 epics start showing up in your random daily heroic run…you may notice some threat issues. Do not be discouraged by your lack of ability to maintain threat in this situation, for Blizzard has granted you a tool for dealing with such inanity: the repair bill. It really is OK to let the DPS die, as long as you save the healer from a similar fate.

On the Successful Group

“If the tank dies, it’s the healer’s fault. If the healer dies, it’s the tank’s fault. If the DPS dies, it’s their own fault.”
– Alexander the Great (or someone like him)



The successful healer understands that communicating with your tank is important. You need to be willing to speak up if you need a minute to drink. Again, without heals, the tank is not going very far. Complements should always be extended to a good healer, and patience should always be extended to a new healer, for this one thing is true: healing sucks. Just as being a good tank is a thankless job, being a good healer is even more thankless.

The successful DPS player understands that their contribution to the group goes beyond their OMGWTFPWN DPS on the meters. The Wrath model for DPS supported this philosophy; the Cataclysm model does not. Being a great DPS player requires more situational awareness and a willingness to be a part of the team. It’s no problem to replace a DPS who is breaking CC, or AOEing all over my sheeped and repented mobs.

The successful tank understands that the universe does not revolve around them, that the game is social in nature. Goading your DPS by linking your top-of-the-meters-in-overall-damage-done performance is not only insulting to the DPS players, it shows your own ignorance of the game’s mechanics: congratulations, you’re the top of the meters in a useless stat. It’s like being top of the meters in mana regeneration. You’ve also alienated the rest of the party, and while you may not care (yay, anonymity), you’re also not going to improve anyone’s performance by doing that kind of thing.

The successful group will accept that there may be some deaths, and that you may actually have a repair bill after a heroic run (contrary to most of Wrath). Every expansion since Vanilla has increased the amount of gold available in the game, and Cataclysm is no exception. Commenting on your repair bill after a wipe shows only one thing: you are a lazy tag-along who wants to get carried to your gear.

The successful group will understand that being respectful of one another is preferable to a more egomaniacal approach, and that teamwork is required in order to avoid a wipe-fest. The successful group will understand that the tank’s goals are the same as everyone else’s goals: to finish the instance.


Acknowledgements

I would like to thank Silmaril for suggesting one of the quotes used. I would like to thank Shortshank for a nice analogy. I would like to thank Ishamhael (and others) for some well worded, thought provoking arguments. I would like to thank the tanking community for their support and suggestions.

Finally, I would like to thank those healers and DPS who wandered their way in here and, rather than taking this post as a personal attack against their value, took it for what it is: some insight as to how a tank thinks.

Edit Log

1/23/2011 – Consolidated four pages into just over 3. Clarified the bridge into role considerations in “On Leadership”. Rewrote the DPS section in “On The Successful Group”. Reworded some sentences for clarity. Added acknowledgements.



Mods: If this is too much, please delete.
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Re: Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

Postby Levantine » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:48 am

Decent enough read, but I get the feeling he really doesn't play a healer. Healing is so much more than hurrr I keep bar green lol, which, while I'm sure isn't what he was saying, is how it read to me. Especially when he goes into great depths the detail of what a tank does (I could simplify the majority of those points into one like he did for healers, but I'm not going to flamebait tonight). Not malicious, just uninitiated.
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Re: Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

Postby Donut » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:18 am

A well written post but I would have to respectfully disagree. Having 'main' tanked 3 expansions worth of content while dpsing and sometimes healing on alts, tanking just seems like the easiest job. Maybe if heroics had stayed as hard as the were right at Cata release, but as it is the seem pretty Wrath-esque as I take my alts through them with a 15% buff.

On the raid side I definitely feel like DPS have the hardest jobs. As a tank, my job is essentially to move the boss as little as possible while having a get-out-of-jail free card from most key boss mechanics like engulfing magic or blackout or conversion. On the other hand DPS, to perform optimally, have to prioritize their abilities through a flow chart of 'if-then' statements as none of them have set rotations as per Blizzard's design AND adhere to an arguably more complex set of boss mechanics which includes boss abilities that I as a tank am allowed to essentially ignore. Honestly I have always felt that because 90% of my 'job' is reflected in my gearing decisions outside of a raid and before the pull, this allows me to allot the maximum amount of attention to timers and such; that is why I end up doing the most talking.

Basically, Can I tank Cho'gall while saving my avenger's shield for conversion and have a conversation on the phone - yes in fact I've done it. Can I DPS the appropriate target while being on depravity duty, not stand in shadow crash, aoe adds, and maximize my dps with optimal positioning for mind control breaking - personally that's harder for me. As far as healing goes, with enough addons it seems at least a bit easier than dps, but still miles ahead of tanking in terms of difficulty. I hope I'm not the only one that feels like the last time I had to think as a tank was A'lar or something.

Don't get me wrong, being a passable dps is probably the easiest job in the world, but being an exceptional dps seems much more difficult then an exceptional tank.

Edit: Grammar and clarity.
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Re: Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:40 am

Donut wrote:A well written post but I would have to respectfully disagree. Having 'main' tanked 3 expansions worth of content while dpsing and sometimes healing on alts, tanking just seems like the easiest job. Maybe if heroics had stayed as hard as the were right at Cata release, but as it is the seem pretty Wrath-esque as I take my alts through them with a 15% buff.

On the raid side I definitely feel like DPS have the hardest jobs. As a tank, my job is essentially to move the boss as little as possible while having a get-out-of-jail free card from most key boss mechanics like engulfing magic or blackout or conversion. On the other hand DPS, to perform optimally, have to prioritize their abilities through a flow chart of 'if-then' statements as none of them have set rotations as per Blizzard's design AND adhere to an arguably more complex set of boss mechanics which includes boss abilities that I as a tank am allowed to essentially ignore. Honestly I have always felt that because 90% of my 'job' is reflected in my gearing decisions outside of a raid and before the pull, this allows me to allot the maximum amount of attention to timers and such; that is why I end up doing the most talking.

Basically, Can I tank Cho'gall while saving my avenger's shield for conversion and have a conversation on the phone - yes in fact I've done it. Can I DPS the appropriate target while being on depravity duty, not stand in shadow crash, aoe adds, and maximize my dps with optimal positioning for mind control breaking - personally that's harder for me. As far as healing goes, with enough addons it seems at least a bit easier than dps, but still miles ahead of tanking in terms of difficulty. I hope I'm not the only one that feels like the last time I had to think as a tank was A'lar or something.

Don't get me wrong, being a passable dps is probably the easiest job in the world, but being an exceptional dps seems much more difficult then an exceptional tank.

Edit: Grammar and clarity.



Whether it's harder for tank/dps in execution definitely depends on the fight, but that's not what the post was talking about. You're discussing execution of raid fights, he's talking about the meta-level organization of PUG heroics. Not really the same thing.

Also... healing easier than dps? Really? That just sounds silly.
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Re: Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

Postby Aubade » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:46 am

Donut wrote:A well written post but I would have to respectfully disagree. Having 'main' tanked 3 expansions worth of content while dpsing and sometimes healing on alts, tanking just seems like the easiest job. Maybe if heroics had stayed as hard as the were right at Cata release, but as it is the seem pretty Wrath-esque as I take my alts through them with a 15% buff.

On the raid side I definitely feel like DPS have the hardest jobs. As a tank, my job is essentially to move the boss as little as possible while having a get-out-of-jail free card from most key boss mechanics like engulfing magic or blackout or conversion. On the other hand DPS, to perform optimally, have to prioritize their abilities through a flow chart of 'if-then' statements as none of them have set rotations as per Blizzard's design AND adhere to an arguably more complex set of boss mechanics which includes boss abilities that I as a tank am allowed to essentially ignore. Honestly I have always felt that because 90% of my 'job' is reflected in my gearing decisions outside of a raid and before the pull, this allows me to allot the maximum amount of attention to timers and such; that is why I end up doing the most talking.

Basically, Can I tank Cho'gall while saving my avenger's shield for conversion and have a conversation on the phone - yes in fact I've done it. Can I DPS the appropriate target while being on depravity duty, not stand in shadow crash, aoe adds, and maximize my dps with optimal positioning for mind control breaking - personally that's harder for me. As far as healing goes, with enough addons it seems at least a bit easier than dps, but still miles ahead of tanking in terms of difficulty. I hope I'm not the only one that feels like the last time I had to think as a tank was A'lar or something.

Don't get me wrong, being a passable dps is probably the easiest job in the world, but being an exceptional dps seems much more difficult then an exceptional tank.

Edit: Grammar and clarity.



I don't mean to be THAT GUY, and you do have some solid points, but I think tanking takes a huge step up from normal -> Heroic nowadays, and the DPS job is nowhere near the step up that tanks have for heroic content. A lot of what makes a good tank good in my opinion is being able to react to any situation, and the speed and effectiveness that we can adapt to that.
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Re: Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

Postby Dantriges » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:48 am

Probably each kind of role thinks of the other roles, that they have it easy.
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Re: Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

Postby Discus » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:18 am

The tank shortage is manifests itself in the PUG queues, you wait for a tank, never a dps and rarely a healer. Which means the game has a problem in that not as many people want to tank as they used to.

The reason I don't tank PUG heroics is the abuse - tanks are expected to be the parents and the rest of the PUGs often behave like naughty children.

I'm not sure what Blizzard can do, as the original post states, the tank as leader mindset has developed over 6 years. It's up to the community to give tanks some slack.
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Re: Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

Postby Shoju » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:48 am

The big problem with the tank shortage solutions that have been proposed put a high value on the tank. The problem with rewarding one role over another is that you are going to inflate the role, and that includes undesirables only doing it for the bonus reward, who don't have the skillset to perform the task at hand.

Like I posted somewhere on the official boards, the problem with the tank shortage stems from the "cap out" on useful items from JP, and eventually VP. Once you have all of your JP gear covered, you need 1 heroic per day for the VP. Eventually, you will cap out on that as well.

Blizzard tried to give options, by implementing the vendors. The problem with the vendors is that Blizzard has this mentality that it shouldn't be profitable. You want me to tank more randoms? Fine. Give me vendors that give me the ability to be profitable. Give me Chopper parts for JP. Give me Trade goods at a reasonable price. Give me Mounts for JP. Give me Pets for JP. Make things BoE.

  • I would actually bother to craft and sell choppers if I could get the mats from a JP vendor.
  • PvPers can get specific mounts with their honor, why can't I buy specific mounts with my JP? Making these BoE might be a stretch, but if the JP to gold conversion is good, you just created a gold sink, and an investment into getting people to run heroics.
  • Pets, specifically BoE pets, would be another gold sink, incentive.
  • Trade goods, that I could purchase and resell at a better profit margin than spending those JP on items to vendor, would be incentive.
  • DO NOT offer PvP gear.
  • Or, just cut to the chase, and have a JP to gold vendor that makes it.... mildly profitable.

These ideas would make good framework towards offering more incentive for more people to run. Will it instantly cure the tank shortage? No. It will bring more people into the RDF. It could have the same negative affect that extra rewards for the tank give. But, I think that a rounded solution like this would bring the better players (the high end raiders) back into a position where they might *want* to do a random, instead of feeling like they *need* to run a random.
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Re: Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

Postby Tev » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:15 am

Dantriges wrote:Probably each kind of role thinks of the other roles, that they have it easy.


Except that doesn't apply to people who have multiple alts/specs who play different roles.

It comes down to play style and experience, a 3 yr tank will have difficulties picking up and playing a healer, as would a DPS switching to a Tank role. What the post was pointing out is the overall expectations for each role, from obviously a Tank view.

Let's take a look at some of the common (mis)conseptions I have seen from roles;

DPS - Top the meters no matter what, CC doesn't matter, if the tank cant take the hit, his gear sucks anyway. Dispels (especially decurse), that's the healers job. Your pulling too slow, I'm pulling the next pack for you... your a sucky tank, you let me die on that pull! Why do I have to focus on the Tanks target, DPS #2 isn't!

>>> DPS who actually CC - Tank stop breaking my CC (on a dotted mob in melee range, not the caster outside the group spamming spells)

Healers - I AM the group, if I say stop, we stop, if I say go, we go. Your not doing anything without my heals so bow before me. If I have to drink, its because your taking too much damage. I don't have to heal you, you have to stop getting hit by stray spells. Of coarse I can spam my inefficient heal all day long, that's how I roll.

Tanks - You pulled agro, you can tank it yourself, I don't care if your the healer. I'm in charge, I don't want to kill this boss, we skip it. What do you mean pvp gear isn't good enough for tanking heroics, just look at my iLvl score! Healer only focus on me, dps can heal themselves. I don't need CC, I R invinsibel.

These are the reasons why I hate to pug unless it's at least with 1 or 2 other guildies. This factored in with peoples limited sight of situations have made me stop playing for weeks at a time out os sheer frustration. Good example, I pull a pack in a heroic, I'm sitting there, popping CDs noticing I'm not getting any heals, trying to stay alive. I die, group wipes, feral druid rages about how sucky a tank I am and rage quits... right after the healer appologizes because they were tabbed out fixing an issue on their pc (without any previous notice).

I can handle wipes, I can handle decent people playing poorly, or undergeared people playing their best possible. But I can't handle people too stupid to truely look at a situation and realize what the real problem is, especially when it happens to be themselves.
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Re: Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

Postby Zalaria » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:17 am

Shoju wrote:The big problem with the tank shortage solutions that have been proposed put a high value on the tank. The problem with rewarding one role over another is that you are going to inflate the role, and that includes undesirables only doing it for the bonus reward, who don't have the skillset to perform the task at hand.

Like I posted somewhere on the official boards, the problem with the tank shortage stems from the "cap out" on useful items from JP, and eventually VP. Once you have all of your JP gear covered, you need 1 heroic per day for the VP. Eventually, you will cap out on that as well.

Blizzard tried to give options, by implementing the vendors. The problem with the vendors is that Blizzard has this mentality that it shouldn't be profitable. You want me to tank more randoms? Fine. Give me vendors that give me the ability to be profitable. Give me Chopper parts for JP. Give me Trade goods at a reasonable price. Give me Mounts for JP. Give me Pets for JP. Make things BoE.

  • I would actually bother to craft and sell choppers if I could get the mats from a JP vendor.
  • PvPers can get specific mounts with their honor, why can't I buy specific mounts with my JP? Making these BoE might be a stretch, but if the JP to gold conversion is good, you just created a gold sink, and an investment into getting people to run heroics.
  • Pets, specifically BoE pets, would be another gold sink, incentive.
  • Trade goods, that I could purchase and resell at a better profit margin than spending those JP on items to vendor, would be incentive.
  • DO NOT offer PvP gear.
  • Or, just cut to the chase, and have a JP to gold vendor that makes it.... mildly profitable.

These ideas would make good framework towards offering more incentive for more people to run. Will it instantly cure the tank shortage? No. It will bring more people into the RDF. It could have the same negative affect that extra rewards for the tank give. But, I think that a rounded solution like this would bring the better players (the high end raiders) back into a position where they might *want* to do a random, instead of feeling like they *need* to run a random.


Just to be clear, unless the pets/mounts/other that you're describing cost gold in addition to JP, then there is no gold sink there. Just gold moving from one player to another. I suppose you could count the AH fees, but that would be it.
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Re: Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

Postby Digren » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:20 am

To me the biggest item is one mentioned a few posts down in the thread - situational awareness. With this, someone is capable of being a tank. Without it, a person will never be a good tank. I've seen some DPS players who have it. They are usually the best you'll ever see; the hunter that can freeze trap an unexpected add as fast as you see it, the DK that can pull a mob from the healer back to the tank's melee range. I've seen many, many DPS and healers who completely lack it. In general they tend to body pull packs that can be avoided, stumble into adds, and die in fire.

Tanks without situational awareness tend to be very, very bad, decide it's not fun, and do something else.

Obviously other skills are required - learning how to pace, manage CC, use positioning, threat, and cooldowns - but I think situational awareness is the raw or underlying talent that makes it possible to stay in the role long enough to learn the rest.
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Re: Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

Postby Flex » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:30 am

Aubade wrote:I don't mean to be THAT GUY, and you do have some solid points, but I think tanking takes a huge step up from normal -> Heroic nowadays, and the DPS job is nowhere near the step up that tanks have for heroic content.


So what you're saying is DPS start out requiring heroic level ability in normal modes while tanks can skate by being average?
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
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Re: Rare gem on the Official forums - On tanking - required read

Postby Vrimmel » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:58 am

Seems to me he is making a post about tanks made for tanks to feel better about themselves. He is a player who has played since vanilla and he's complaining about dps not fulfilling their potential. I bet he would make a post about dpsing if he had played a dps for so long.
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