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4.1 PTR

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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Chicken » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:00 am

Sabindeus wrote:Why is the fact that they're BoA appealing? Isn't all the stuff in it either a) not binding b) a mount that you'd probably want on your main anyway?
It does make sense from the incentive point of view; it's an incentive for people whose mains aren't tanks of the desired role to relog to their tank alt of the desired role.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:06 am

Yeah, for myself it would be a case of checking for a mount, then if one appears I already have (Hawkstrider, Deathcharger, Blue Proto), sending it off to another toon. Alternatively if in bizarro-land my dps gets a Call to Arms (or if a lowbie toon does, assuming they go with that idea), sending mounts off to my main if it's one he needs.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Shoju » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:10 am

It might make a difference to me. Maybe. But... only if we were ever able to see some sort of Cross realm BoA stuff.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:16 am

Archeth wrote:Not "Call to Arms" related, but I welcome
New Cooking and Fishing Dailies have been added to Darnassus, Ironforge, Thunder Bluff, and Undercity.

very much, as I always preferred Ironforge to Stormwind (and Thunder Bluff to Orgrimmar, even the new one). Just need Cata zone portals now so I can live there again all the time :)


Are they adding any recipies? I'm sitting at 199/200 and not willing to pay 50k gold for a removed pattern. :[
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby sherck » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:18 am

Dashdar wrote:I am suggesting the entire dungeon and I think it's only a slight extension from the idea of protect X while it does something. Obviously it would be more than a tank and spank though.


I sort of like this ideal. I can remember the first couple of times I ran Old Hillsbrad thinking that Trall was a bada$$ after you released him from his prison because he, de facto, became the tank for the party. I think more could be made of this.

Rough Idea:

Your "mission" is to inflatrate a castle being beseiged by enemy forces to rescue some important NPC.

-- The instance starts with you having to sneak past the beseiging forces in order to get to the castle. You are going to be presented with various checkpoints you need to pass in order to get there. Some will require CC, some coordinated fire, some stealth. All can be completed, IF DONE CORRECTLY, without having to engage in tanking. Once past the checkpoints, you reach your "insertion" vehicle, a boat. [[ Call this the "use your CC and utility" phase ]]

-- This leads to a part of the instance where you have to board a boat that moves across the moat of the castle in order to "inflitrate" said castle; but instead making it, you get discovered. Now you need to DPS catapults and archers on the shore to ensure they don't damage your boat too much before it can get to "boss" catapault requires you killing specific points of the catapault (hinge points, the bucket, the tension bar, etc) in a specific amount of time or else the catapult sinks your boat. Some crazy enemy forces are swinging from ropes on trees and boarding your boat in order to give your melee DPS some fun as well. [[ Call this the "maximum DPS output" phase ]]

-- After you make it past the super catapult and land near the castle, you need to enter the castle through some catacombs and meet up with your NPC guide. Unfortunantly, the enemy troops have also discovered the catacombs and need to be raced to reach the NPC you are rescuing. Your NPC guide acts as your tank for this phase (think Thrall in Old Hillsbrad) and if you don't kill enemy in specific orders / time they will overwhelm him and you all die. Enemy Captain is the boss for this part of the instance. [[ Call this the "focused fire" phase ]]

-- You reach the NPC to be rescued (a Princess, naturally) and need to escort her out of the castle to the designated evac point. Involves a sequence like the Pyrimid in ZF or the stairs right after Halfus in that you have waves and waves of relatively low health but high damage enemy heading towards you that you have to have very reactive and quick to down them in time. Boss ends up being an archer boss that you have to DPS while quickly moving to avoid his fire/poison/damaging attack, need to break allies out of traps, need to dance in and out of melee range, etc. [[ Call this the "quick reaction" phase ]]

-- Finally, after getting to the evac point, the evac platform comes (a huge Magic Carpet] everyone hops on and the Son of Deathwing shows up to try and thwart the day. This boss fight requires quick reaction to avoid damage, CC/kiting to deal with small drake adds that come onto the platfrom and will kill rather quickly if allowed into melee range, high damage output or you will eventually get overwhelmed by the drake adds, and the ability to manage your DoTs (needed for certain phases when the dragon goes behind the clouds and cannot be directly DPSed) and your direct damage.

If designed correctly, could be a very interesting set of fights that require the entire party to perform their various DPS roles well. This particular setup is somewhat ranged heavy (especially the boat sequency) and there would have to be some way to work it for a melee heavy group but you get the general idea.

I also don't mind the concept of adding a 4th DPS to the party. More for me to heal but it would help shorten the queues greatly.

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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Aerron » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:18 am

Shoju wrote:It might make a difference to me. Maybe. But... only if we were ever able to see some sort of Cross realm BoA stuff.


Which from trends appearing in patch notes and dev statements, is likely going to be the case at some point.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:23 am

Aerron wrote:Now, maybe you're suggesting that not just one fight, but the entire Dungeon runs off the same gimmick, e.g. you zone in and Captain Awesome is there to tank the dungeon for you.


Someone suggested a vehicle that could function as a tank, allowing a dps to queue as "dps/driver" and slot 4dps+healer into the dungeon and feed Blizzard's vehicle fetish, all in one fell swoop.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Dashdar » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:32 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
Aerron wrote:Now, maybe you're suggesting that not just one fight, but the entire Dungeon runs off the same gimmick, e.g. you zone in and Captain Awesome is there to tank the dungeon for you.


Someone suggested a vehicle that could function as a tank, allowing a dps to queue as "dps/driver" and slot 4dps+healer into the dungeon and feed Blizzard's vehicle fetish, all in one fell swoop.



These are the kinds of things we need in 4.1, not a new WC instance lol.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:51 am

You head too far down that direction and you'll just end up with Oculus all over again.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Malthrax » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:54 am

KysenMurrin wrote:You head too far down that direction and you'll just end up with Oculus all over again.


Some of us rather liked Oculus/Malygos/FlameLeviathan.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby sherck » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:59 am

KysenMurrin wrote:You head too far down that direction and you'll just end up with Oculus all over again.


And seriously, what was wrong with the Oculus?

Sure, I am not a huge fan of "vehicle" fights but the thing that I found okay about Oculus was that only one of the boss fights was a vehicle fight. Sure, you had to fly vehicles around to get from trash pack/boss to trash pack/boss but it was not too bad. Only the last boss ended up being a vehicle fight and it was still tank/healer/3xDPS for most groups.

I would not be supportive of every instance in the game being able to be completed without tank or healer. But I would be okay with 2 or 3 instances per xpac being "DPS only" capable and when you queue as a DPS, you indicate whether you want to do a "traditional" instance with the standard 1-1-3 or if you want to queue for a "DPS only" instance or if you want either first come, first serve.

I don't think this would ruin the game and it would give a good outlet to DPS who don't want long queues, are not hunting for a specific upgrade and just want their 70x VP from the RDF.

Anyway, I think it is an interesting idea.

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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:06 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:You head too far down that direction and you'll just end up with Oculus all over again.


The difference being that it's optional.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Aerron » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:13 pm

sherck wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:You head too far down that direction and you'll just end up with Oculus all over again.


I would not be supportive of every instance in the game being able to be completed without tank or healer. But I would be okay with 2 or 3 instances per xpac being "DPS only" capable and when you queue as a DPS, you indicate whether you want to do a "traditional" instance with the standard 1-1-3 or if you want to queue for a "DPS only" instance or if you want either first come, first serve.

I don't think this would ruin the game and it would give a good outlet to DPS who don't want long queues, are not hunting for a specific upgrade and just want their 70x VP from the RDF.


But I think that's the problem. At this point, the only reason most people in my guild have for running heroics is the 70 VP. We're pretty much beyond needing any drops from there. Most people log in, get in a guild group, run their one heroic, and then either log out, spend the night pvping, or go lvl an alt. (Obviously this is non-raid nights.)

Give them the option of running an instance as all DPS with no queue and even the Healers and Tanks in my guild would probably switch over, go get their 70, and be done with it. Considering there's very good gear that can be obtained for JP, even new 85's fresh to Heroics really have no good reason to run any other instance. Just go in, get your JP/VP, go buy the slot items that don't drop in the DPS dungeons.

No one would ever run the "holy trinity" instances again.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Aanar » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:45 pm

The big quandry they have is that anything they do to lower the dps queue time will have the affect of increasing the % of people that queue as dps only. Due to the dps wait, there has to be a decent chunk of people that are dps at heart but go as heals or tank so they don't have to wait. I much prefer resto on my druid than bear, but I a lot of times I'm too impatient to wait the 10-15 minutes for the heal queue to pop so just go as bear. (That and bad healers seem rarer than bad tanks, so it's safer to go as tank)

The pet/mount thing will probably be a temporary fix at best.

The problem is that they've locked themselves into groups being 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps. When the people that queue doesn't match this, someone's going to be stuck waiting.

Making a dungeon that uses 5 dps is the best idea I've seen. It wouldn't be too hard to code up it to create the right balance of x number of 1-1-3 dungeons and y number of 0-0-5 ones. That would give you a lot of flexability to accomodate a range of tank:dps ratios. Just having a 0-0-5 should be enough of a lever to fix the queue time. If you really wanted to fix it for good, you'd make a 1-0-3 (one tank no healer) and a 0-1-3 dungone too so you had the leavers to adjust for more tanks than healer and more healers than tanks. But there's probably enough people that queue as heal&dps to simply put the extras into the 0-0-5 dungeon.

A 0-0-5 dungeon would probably be some gimicky scripted thing, but should be doable. The only "trouble" I could see is if it turned into the easy-mode and everyone switched to queueing as dps for their vp hoping to get it, you'd end up with the whole thing skewed toward the 0-0-5 dungeon. And if there was only one instance and you got it half the time you queue'd as dps, it would get pretty old.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Dashdar » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:53 pm

Aerron wrote:But I think that's the problem. At this point, the only reason most people in my guild have for running heroics is the 70 VP. We're pretty much beyond needing any drops from there. Most people log in, get in a guild group, run their one heroic, and then either log out, spend the night pvping, or go lvl an alt. (Obviously this is non-raid nights.)

Give them the option of running an instance as all DPS with no queue and even the Healers and Tanks in my guild would probably switch over, go get their 70, and be done with it. Considering there's very good gear that can be obtained for JP, even new 85's fresh to Heroics really have no good reason to run any other instance. Just go in, get your JP/VP, go buy the slot items that don't drop in the DPS dungeons.

No one would ever run the "holy trinity" instances again.


What good would that do them? If they queue for it specifically, they can run it once and then get locked out. Then you have to random queue and hope you get it. And, if they queue specifically, they will not get VP.

You're assuming that you could select to only queue for DPS only 5mans. I would say that would be a bad idea because then, yes you would be correct. But if it's just part of the possible choices, then it's still just luck.
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