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4.1 PTR

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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby halabar » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:12 am

BOA bags are likely enough to get me to take Halabar out and tank some heroics, even though he's not my main anymore.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Aerron » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:17 am

Dashdar wrote:
Aerron wrote:
Dashdar wrote:I rather see them spend some time reworking how they view dungeons and the composition needed to complete them. Why not have some that do not need a tank, have straight up DPS bosses and play with different mechanics for healing and holding agro (maybe even a NPC). Then we could all smash face from time to time.


It sounds like what you're really asking for here is a completely different game.


Why do you say that? I'm just suggesting some outside the box thinking instead of band aids.


First off, I don't really see how gimmick fights (which is what it looks like to me that you're suggesting) are really going to deal with queue times, which is the bottom line issue Blizz is addressing.

Now, maybe you're suggesting that not just one fight, but the entire Dungeon runs off the same gimmick, e.g. you zone in and Captain Awesome is there to tank the dungeon for you. The tank goes "oh, okay" and switches to his dps set. (Personally I would hate this, as if I've signed up to tank it's because I want to tank, not because I HAVE to.) Then the party goes on their merry way.

Problem is, with the RDF being R, you don't know if you're going to get a gimmick dungeon or a regular version. You'd still need a normal composition to queue up. Again, this does nothing for queue times.

Unless you're suggesting that ALL the dungeons being gimmick dungeons. Which, again, is really just asking for a completely different game.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Meloree » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:29 am

Thornir wrote:
Meloree wrote:
BoA VP and JP from Call to Arms would get me to queue.


I always see this suggestion pop up a lot, and while I agree that it would make gearing alts easier and more fun, I always see the same reason used against it: Blizzard doesn't let you use your tank to get gear for your hunter because Blizzard wants to make sure that, you know, you actually know how to play your hunter by the time you're raid-ready. You'd get 359 scrubs instead of just 346 scrubs.


I'm not actually saying it's a good idea - only that that's what it would take for me to put the time and energy into participating.

I'm also not sure that "heroics teach you how to raid" is a fully supportable statement. Theck just finished talking about how he has no bad pugs, because he can make a run happen regardless of who's with him.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Worldie » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:45 am

Heroics at least teach you the basis of moving out of fire.

Well, they try to. If someone is so dumb that he doesn't learn them, and keeps standing in that flashing fire aoe who hits him for 30% of his HP every second, then it's his problem :)

In heroics if 3 people (tank, 1 dps and a healer usually) are good enough, they can easily carry 2 bads. I've personally done many heroics (in all 3 roles) in which I was for example doing 60%+ of the DPS of the group, and we still completed them successfully.

Obviously when you pick people for raids, you wont pick the bads.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Flex » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:48 am

Worldie wrote:Heroics at least teach you the basis of moving out of fire.


Heroics teach you the stuff raiders take for granted, such as fire standing and add control/killing.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:56 am

How do goodie bags work in this situation? Can you open a bag and look at the contents before sending it to another toon? Can you take one item out then still mail the rest?
I know how one aspect works - the random loot in a container is fixed either on creation or the first time it's opened - but it's the trading part that I'm curious about.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Malthrax » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:12 am

Worldie wrote:Obviously when you pick people for raids, you wont pick the bads.

What bizarro-world do you live in?
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Malthrax » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:14 am

KysenMurrin wrote:How do goodie bags work in this situation? Can you open a bag and look at the contents before sending it to another toon? Can you take one item out then still mail the rest?
I know how one aspect works - the random loot in a container is fixed either on creation or the first time it's opened - but it's the trading part that I'm curious about.


Its just like the "Bag of Useless Crap" from random level-up dungeons and the bag from Oculus - clicking it opens it up, puts the contents in your inventory, and destroys the "bag".
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Aerron » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:29 am

Malthrax wrote:Its just like the "Bag of Useless Crap" from random level-up dungeons and the bag from Oculus - clicking it opens it up, puts the contents in your inventory, and destroys the "bag".


But it's not really like that, since those bags aren't BoA and this one will be. So the question being asked is, will we be able to look inside without taking anything out and then transfer it? or will it always be a risk to open the bag.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Malthrax » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:30 am

Aerron wrote:[quote="Malthrax]
Its just like the "Bag of Useless Crap" from random level-up dungeons and the bag from Oculus - clicking it opens it up, puts the contents in your inventory, and destroys the "bag".[/quote]

But it's not really like that, since those bags aren't BoA and this one will be. So the question being asked is, will we be able to look inside without taking anything out and then transfer it? or will it always be a risk to open the bag.[/quote][/quote][/quote]


No, you won't be able to "peek". Its the WoWzeinberg Uncertainty Principle - you cannot both know the contents of the satchel AND be able to mail it to an alt, simultaneously. Opening the bag to look at its contents causes its wave-function to collapse, thus emptying its contents into your inventory.
Last edited by Malthrax on Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Flex » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:31 am

Malthrax wrote:
Aerron wrote:[quote="Malthrax]
Its just like the "Bag of Useless Crap" from random level-up dungeons and the bag from Oculus - clicking it opens it up, puts the contents in your inventory, and destroys the "bag".[/quote]

But it's not really like that, since those bags aren't BoA and this one will be. So the question being asked is, will we be able to look inside without taking anything out and then transfer it? or will it always be a risk to open the bag.[/quote][/quote]

No, you won't be able to "peek".[/quote]


Bags are subject to the auto-loot rules. Hold down shift to not auto-loot the items.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:32 am

Why is the fact that they're BoA appealing? Isn't all the stuff in it either a) not binding b) a mount that you'd probably want on your main anyway?
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Flex » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:33 am

Sabindeus wrote:Why is the fact that they're BoA appealing? Isn't all the stuff in it either a) not binding b) a mount that you'd probably want on your main anyway?


Refer to bldavis' post.

His hunter is the thing he gets stuff on, but by the bag being BoA he can tank his way to pets and mounts.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Aerron » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:36 am

Flex wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:Why is the fact that they're BoA appealing? Isn't all the stuff in it either a) not binding b) a mount that you'd probably want on your main anyway?


Refer to bldavis' post.

His hunter is the thing he gets stuff on, but by the bag being BoA he can tank his way to pets and mounts.


Or for those who already might have say, the mount on their main already, this way their favorite alt can get some love too.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Dashdar » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:44 am

Aerron wrote:First off, I don't really see how gimmick fights (which is what it looks like to me that you're suggesting) are really going to deal with queue times, which is the bottom line issue Blizz is addressing.

Now, maybe you're suggesting that not just one fight, but the entire Dungeon runs off the same gimmick, e.g. you zone in and Captain Awesome is there to tank the dungeon for you. The tank goes "oh, okay" and switches to his dps set. (Personally I would hate this, as if I've signed up to tank it's because I want to tank, not because I HAVE to.) Then the party goes on their merry way.

Problem is, with the RDF being R, you don't know if you're going to get a gimmick dungeon or a regular version. You'd still need a normal composition to queue up. Again, this does nothing for queue times.

Unless you're suggesting that ALL the dungeons being gimmick dungeons. Which, again, is really just asking for a completely different game.


Well, to address the bottom line. You want to create a way to reduce the queue times for people. The people who suffer the longest times are the people who queue as DPS. So if you have 1-2 5 mans that cater to a pure DPS group, then you could help speed up queues.

I am suggesting the entire dungeon and I think it's only a slight extension from the idea of protect X while it does something. Obviously it would be more than a tank and spank though.

The RDF looks for a composition of Tank Healer, and 3xDPS now. Would it be hard to create specific dungeons that look for different combinations? A 5 man that was only, say 5xDPS would only pull in people who queue as DPS. So you would not have a tank hop in who did not also select DPS as an option, but it would be more likely those people would go to fill Tank spots in more conventional 5 mans.

Gimmick implies novelty and they tend to have little relevance (which describes the BoA bag well too). But if it helps to reduce DPS queue times, it becomes an alternative. The BoA bag, will never be more than an eBribe.
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