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4.1 PTR

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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Linkie » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:34 am

I just noticed the Rebuke thing now too, I presume it wasn't on the first set of PTR notes. That is pretty awesome.

One thing I am still wondering though, is how reliable we can keep up holy shield now, if we are supposed to only use ShoR/WoG on 3 HP, while CS/HotR is not generating HP while missing.

And I don't see WoG being a mini-cooldown now, seeing as you aren't guaranteed to be at 3 HP when you need it. Actually, the chance is pretty slim, unless you sit around on 3 HP waiting to use it, which pretty much sucks.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Chunes » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:35 am

Looking over the logs from previous fights where I was spamming the fuck out of wog, as wog spec, with selfless healer, with SoI and glyphed to enhance all of my healing throughput while tanking, on a fight with insane damage output my healing was about 5% compared to the main healers 30%'s.

I'm not worried about wog being nerfed at all.

If anything changed in the next patch, I'd wish for there to be a better way to get threat stats that didn't cripple my mastery and ctc so much. It's a quality of life thing, but seriously, nerf vengeance and nerf the ilvl stat costs of threat stats somehow so I can actually rise above my paltry 2% hit and 8 expertise.

edit*

also, if the new amani warbear and tiger/raptor mounts don't have distinct art from the bc/vanilla versions respectively, there will be some rage.

In before "We've decided to also make Champion of the Naaru and Hand of A'Dal titles available again to players who are motivated enough to get 5 friends together to cheese old content."
Last edited by Chunes on Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby thegreatheed » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:36 am

Beefchief wrote:My hit rating is not capped (though it's not neglected either) and I've never noticed my Rebuke missing. In fact, I already assumed that it always landed in PvE raid situations. Maybe it's different for PvP though.


Rebuke misses just like any other ability. 8% to cap against a raid boss.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Flex » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:40 am

Heal tanking is my least favorite thing about the first iteration of Cataclysm paladin tanking design
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby mclem » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:56 am

Linkie wrote:One thing I am still wondering though, is how reliable we can keep up holy shield now, if we are supposed to only use ShoR/WoG on 3 HP, while CS/HotR is not generating HP while missing.


The smart thing to request would be for WoGs cooldown to be shorter than HS's duration - either reducing one or lengthening the other. That doesn't strike me as an unreasonable compromise.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Cema » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:58 am

I don't get the people who say that Divine guardian was too strong

I mean ... It is a raid cooldown with a very short duration, it's meant to protect the raid just at the right moment, what is wrong with it? When I read some people here I have the feeling that its should just attract bees or make a lovely music .. You are not happy to have more tools than just the 5 tanking buttons we had during wotlk? Power Word Barrier has a 2 minutes cooldown and has a longer duration and I see nobody having a problem with it. What's wrong with you guys? Are you some king of sado masochists?

And for the wog nerf it's the same. "blablablah it's good nerf was deserved"

For the first time in 4 years Blizzard gave us the possibility to have a real gameplay, with the 4.01 we were able to choose the spell we wanted to use instead of always pushing the same 5 buttons in the same rotation. We had a rotation for aoe with healing, a rotation for full aoe threat, a rotation for single target with healing, a rotation for single target with dps and we were able to switch during a fight. Now what does the wog nerf gives us? Less choice cause we will only be able tu use Shor most of the time. It won't be "I'm at full health and the life of the raid is ok let's do some dps, it will be "I spam my crappy rotation ... oh my WoG cooldown is up let's heal something just now now now !" Do you really find it more interesting than WoG without cooldown?

I don't say it's the end of the world, for me it just makes the game more boring. But I oftenly see the argument "it's not teh end of the world so it's ok let's accept it" . No, just NO. When an idea is partially bad, it's not "a good idea" and it has to be said
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby mclem » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:59 am

Chunes wrote:also, if the new amani warbear and tiger/raptor mounts don't have distinct art from the bc/vanilla versions respectively, there will be some rage.


Blue posts imply there is:

Since Zul'Aman is back, you might be curious on whether the rare mounts will be back? Yes, we're proud to annouce that new rare-drop Raptor, Tiger and Warbear mount will be available, while the old mounts still have their unique beauty in hand. We will share a lot more on obtaining the new mounts.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Dantriges » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:05 am

So Divine Guardian is used to make encounters easier and raids stack paladins for Aura Mastery and Guardian. Big news. People did it in Ulduar, LK hero and people do it now. I was actually surprised that they kept it and think it´s a bad idea trying to keep it in.

WoG healing, too strong. Yes. It is a nightmare to balance. The trade off between threat/dps and healing. If threat is too tight, there is no choice, if threat s too generous, WoG will be spammed as often as possible. Putting it on a cooldown was probably the best solution but they should change it, so that prot can use it without Holy Power at all. Otherwise it´s a bit too situational.

Woulld be nice if they took steps to ensure that tanks think about threat stats. If we dump them like we do now, the only thing that will happen is that they nerf mastery, because everyone is dumping threat stats. As soon as we can reliably cover the whole combat table, the nerfbat will swing, unless it´s T14.

Vengeance is too strong and clunky. I wonder why they still keep it this way. Decay is too fast, maximum is too high, etc. Someone must really love it or they have some numbers from T whatever in the future where we will need ths amount of Extra AP.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Chunes » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:07 am

mclem wrote:
Chunes wrote:also, if the new amani warbear and tiger/raptor mounts don't have distinct art from the bc/vanilla versions respectively, there will be some rage.


Blue posts imply there is:

Since Zul'Aman is back, you might be curious on whether the rare mounts will be back? Yes, we're proud to annouce that new rare-drop Raptor, Tiger and Warbear mount will be available, while the old mounts still have their unique beauty in hand. We will share a lot more on obtaining the new mounts.


Rage explosion averted...

potentially...

I actually don't ride my warbear that much anymore since Anzu matches my ridiculous blueberry suit. Here's hoping next tier is a little less... blue.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Fetzie » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:08 am

Looking at the new trinkets for tanks, I'm finding them a little underwhelming compared to the new dps/healing trinkets.

These are the ilevel 391 versions, so from the heroic raid content (or some form of 'upgrade' on the normal versions at ilvel 378


http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=69199 looks really good...I apologise in advance to our feral druid :)

We have been providing feedback since the mechanic was first unveiled in beta back last august, that it is clunky and making us able to get rid of any hit or expertise we might get. Someone at blizz must really like it.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Kelaan » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:29 am

Darielle wrote:They seem to like the power of an individual WoG where it is, their issue is with using it to the exclusion of all else (for Prot), and in spamming it in PvP (as Ret).

Well, that does seem to suck somewhat for Prot PvP. :-(
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby yappo » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:31 am

As I don't see much in the way of raid-content I've been fiddling around a bit with Prot-PvP the last month. To be honest, WoG spamming is simply retarded.

In difference from PvE you're hit-capped and for all practical purposes expertise-(soft)-capped. I have to assume this goes for ret as well.

Now, as for the very little raiding I DO see. Being able to tell the healer to care about the raid and forget me because I'll handle myself is ALSO retarded.

Agreed, it's a nerf, but it wasn't exactly unexpected.

As for DG, does any other tank-spec (apart from the new warrior thingie I didn't really understand) come with a raid-wall?
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:32 am

Chunes wrote:Here's hoping next tier is a little less... blue.


I suspect there will be a lot of red.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Dantriges » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:34 am

Cema wrote:I don't get the people who say that Divine guardian was too strong

I mean ... It is a raid cooldown with a very short duration, it's meant to protect the raid just at the right moment, what is wrong with it? When I read some people here I have the feeling that its should just attract bees or make a lovely music .. You are not happy to have more tools than just the 5 tanking buttons we had during wotlk? Power Word Barrier has a 2 minutes cooldown and has a longer duration and I see nobody having a problem with it. What's wrong with you guys? Are you some king of sado masochists?


I think the blue post said that Barrier is a bit strong, too.

But it´s pretty simple. Let´s say that you have 5 phases of very high damage on the raid. You can´t make them 30 seconds or so, healers would be out of mana fast. If you have one holy paladin and one Prot. You can cover 2 phases. So now, we bein the game of coolddown stacking. bench the other tank, get asecond prot paladin. Bench some other healers, bring in the holydins. get some retribution paladin for raidance. Like Theck said. They brought 5 paladins. 5 radiance, 2 raidwalls, 2 aura mastery to their 10 man Nef kill. Bring a discipline priest and you can cover every phase with a rais damage reduction.

One of my guild officers who watched a Nef kill video more or less said: "We need two raid DR cds at least. makes it a lot easier." He only said discipline priests at first, because he didn´t knew about the paladin raidwall, but it got implemented into our tactic fast, together with every available auramastery.

It´s the same with other abilities. High aoe amage in Wrath, blanket the raid with rejuvenation from several druids. Cheesy door tactic in PdoK, Twin valkyr. Tranquility, aura mastery, raidwall and so on made it possible to circumvent the harder parts of the encounter. Sunwell: shaman stacking, skill leatherworking.

Blizzard can´t balance their encounters this way. If they balance it with cooldown tactic in mind, other guilds who are unable to stack their raid in the most favorable way, are unable to win the encounter or at least face unreasonable difficulties. If they balance it for the average raid, other guilds able or willing to stack will breeze through it.

In short, it´s not "Bring the player, not the class" but "Bring the cooldowns."

It´s sad that we lose choices but unless they spread abilities around even more, so that every raid has its share of raid cooldowns, unavoidable. Unless the developers don´t care. And that´s the reason I was surprised that they kept them.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:34 am

yappo wrote:Now, as for the very little raiding I DO see. Being able to tell the healer to care about the raid and forget me because I'll handle myself is ALSO retarded.


hahahahahahahahaha

rofl.
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