Observations post Cs Change - Pulling out of frustrations.

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Re: Observations post Cs Change - Pulling out of frustrations.

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:41 pm

Kelaan wrote:If you can choose to get X points for normal raiding, or 2X for doing it twice, there will be a subset of people who argue that they are "more prepared" for having farmed the 2X points (and gear that it buys). I'm glad that I don't have that option, as it means that playing relatively casually means that I'm not that far behind our most active players.

Isn't there a weekly/daily cap for JP/VP? Or did they not go through with that idea?
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Re: Observations post Cs Change - Pulling out of frustrations.

Postby Hokahey » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:03 am

Digren wrote:
So far everything I said was wrong about the exclusivity has happened, to the detriment of the game. (The overall challenge increase and 10/25 alignment are different issues, both of which I support. It's the lockout exclusivity that is wrong with Cata raiding in my opinion.)


The only reason its "wrong" is if you feel it is. In my opinion, PuGing raids on the scale that was done in Wrath was what was "wrong".
The unnatural situation was hitting the top tier of content with complete strangers because they were the ones who happened to be on trade chat at the time, and met the meager criteria for acceptance (i.e. gearscore), and that being the *normative* scenario, as opposed to the exception.

Mind you, I'm firmly of the belief that you and I will never agree on this topic, which is totally fine. I just want to point out that the change is only to the game's detriment for you, and those who share your view, while those who don't share it may actually feel its an improvement on a major flaw in Wrath's raiding scheme.

As to tanks/healers being pressured to do fights they can't benefit from, we all know that this already happens. It *would* continue to happen. We also know full well that a tank/healer who refuses to do raid/boss the raid wants to do because they can't personally benefit is likely to be labeled as "selfish" and/or a "loot whore", and that there is a very strong possibility said tank/healer will find themselves being sat out for others who are willing to do *whatever* the guild/raid demands for a guaranteed raid slot.

Basically, people would be pressured to do this, some unreasonably so, and it *would* be a potentially unfair situation. For that matter, the same goes for DPS, although the most likely scenario is tanks/healers being abused.
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Re: Observations post Cs Change - Pulling out of frustrations.

Postby Skye1013 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:00 am

@Hokahey:

Maybe I'm drawing the wrong conclusion from your post, but what I think Digren is taking issue with is the fact you don't have the option to do BOTH 10 & 25 in a given week. Not the raid difficulty.
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Re: Observations post Cs Change - Pulling out of frustrations.

Postby Dantriges » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:25 am

And I am happy that there isn´t the option.

Because of peer pressure of course and I am not sure if fellow guild mates would like it so much, if you decline repeatedly. Especially if it´s "progress", be it 10 man progress or 25. And some of them have a higher guild rank or are members for a longer time etc.
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Re: Observations post Cs Change - Pulling out of frustrations.

Postby yappo » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:00 am

Dantriges wrote:And I am happy that there isn´t the option.

Because of peer pressure of course and I am not sure if fellow guild mates would like it so much, if you decline repeatedly. Especially if it´s "progress", be it 10 man progress or 25. And some of them have a higher guild rank or are members for a longer time etc.


I'm not entirely certain the pressure would be all that great considering the 1250 weekly VP-cap (is it 1250?). If the members of your raiding guild caps, I can't see the double need for doing the "other" raid as well.


My argments are as follow:

1) If your guild is good enough to quickly cap VP in either 10 or 25, then we're effectively talking farming. In that case drops aren't all that important any longer, and the interest of doing the alternate version of a raid would drop for all roles.

2) If your guild isn't that good, or you don't belong to a raiding guild at all, then shared lockout or not is a rather moot question. You'd basically have the choise of wiping on 10 or 25. Prejudiced as I am I'll even go as far as saying that you only have the option to wipe on 10-man, because it's easier to schedule weekly 10-man wiping sessions than 25-man weekly wiping sessions.


@poster disliking pugging raids:

If I like wiping while pugging raidcontent (ie keep the current difficulty) and occasionally down a boss or two, how could that pssibly be detrimental to your raiding when you hammer your way through 9/12, 12/12, or even hardmodes in your guild. You're a raiding guild. For all practical purposes the 20k odd other players on the realm you play on don't exist. (yes, yes, AH, world-PvP, /trade, yadda, yadda, but they're not NEEDED for your raiding)

As long as the CONTENT isn't nerfed to faceroll difficulty (WotLK), pugs or no pugs shouldn't be of any concern to you.
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Re: Observations post Cs Change - Pulling out of frustrations.

Postby Darielle » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:42 pm

1) If your guild is good enough to quickly cap VP in either 10 or 25, then we're effectively talking farming. In that case drops aren't all that important any longer, and the interest of doing the alternate version of a raid would drop for all roles.


That's sort of not true, particularly if seperate lockouts involved access to Heroic modes.
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