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LoH off the GCD ... !!

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LoH off the GCD ... !!

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:43 am

In addition, Lay on Hands is no longer on the global cooldown.


Hot damn.
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Re: LoH off the GCD ... !!

Postby PsiVen » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:49 am

You also get Forbearance for 60 seconds every time a holy paladin LoHs you.

Color me lukewarm.
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Re: LoH off the GCD ... !!

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:04 am

Forbearance prevents LoH, HoP, and Bubble only now, so I'm not all that fassed tbh. The times I've died due to GCD lockout on LoH are far, far more than I've lived due to multiple (effective) LoH by our holydins (if anything the 2nd paladin gets 100% overheal, etc).

Hell, I even like the 60 sec lockout preventing 'wasted' LoHs due to multiple paladins panicking at once.
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Re: LoH off the GCD ... !!

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:05 am

PsiVen wrote:You also get Forbearance for 60 seconds every time a holy paladin LoHs you.

Color me lukewarm.

That only prevents a bubble for 1 minute, or using your own LoH, but if you need 2xLoH within 60 seconds, something has probably gone horribly wrong and you're likely looking at a wipe anyhow.

The only reason I could see it being an issue is if you're trying to clear a stacking debuff and the holy pally just LoH'd you. I'd try and work that out with the other pallies beforehand.
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Re: LoH off the GCD ... !!

Postby sherck » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:59 am

fuzzygeek wrote:Forbearance prevents LoH, HoP, and Bubble only now, so I'm not all that fassed tbh. The times I've died due to GCD lockout on LoH are far, far more than I've lived due to multiple (effective) LoH by our holydins (if anything the 2nd paladin gets 100% overheal, etc).

Hell, I even like the 60 sec lockout preventing 'wasted' LoHs due to multiple paladins panicking at once.


1. Bolded part. Nope, with this patch, LoH will no longer xfer through the Beacon. It will also no longer Crit. No more 200k instant healing with the single press of a button.

2. I think this Forbearance change sucks for having a Holy Paladin healing a Prot Paladin.

I have zero restriction if I use my LoH on a DK, Bear or Warrior tank but I now have just taken away one of a Protection Paladin's short CDs in order for me to use my CD.

With this change, I will probably now have to consider using LoH on one of my tanks (we have been running dual Pally tanks the last couple of weeks) because:

A. Will it even work? Does he already have Forbearance on him due to having used Divine Protection in the last 60 sec (which is VERY likely)? If it does not work, I have just lost time that I could have been casting Divine Light in order to try to bring him up.

B. Will it even work? Does he already have Forbearance on him due to haivng used Lay on Hands on himself in the last 60 sec? See above.

3. Does he have to use Divine Shield within the next 60 seconds to clear a debuff?

I think it is just stupid in PvE to have an external source (Holy Paladin) be able to impose a debuff on you (tank) to an ability you probably typically use every 60 seconds. ESPECIALLY when it does not impose that same restriction on any of the other tanks.

Can anyone else think of another casted buff that prevents you from using another, NOT IDENTICAL buff for the next 60 sec?

I can cast Divine Favor right after a Time Warp/Bloodlust (heck, I can cast it at the same time, it just does not good) to extend my casting speed goodness.

I see this as, but yet again, a PvP restriction that imposes stupid rules on PvE play (oh no. The Pally cast his 20% reduction bubble, cast LoH on himself and then cast bubble and healing himself. I can't kill him! QQQQQQQQQQ).

Anyway, it makes me wish I ran with non-Pally tanks so that I don't have to worry about it. Hey Shoju, how about morphing into a big, furry bear butt to tank?

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Re: LoH off the GCD ... !!

Postby warden » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:08 am

A. Will it even work? Does he already have Forbearance on him due to having used Divine Protection in the last 60 sec (which is VERY likely)? If it does not work, I have just lost time that I could have been casting Divine Light in order to try to bring him up.

Divine protection doesn't create Forbearance anymore... hasn't for a long time. None of our tanking-specific cooldowns do. 100% with fuzzy on this one. The only place I see this causing me a slight headache is Chim or Maloriak HMs, both of which we have LoH rotations for on one of our tanks for specific spots in the fights. Very niche in the grand scheme of things.
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Re: LoH off the GCD ... !!

Postby Shathus » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:10 am

sherck wrote:

A. Will it even work? Does he already have Forbearance on him due to having used Divine Protection in the last 60 sec (which is VERY likely)? If it does not work, I have just lost time that I could have been casting Divine Light in order to try to bring him up.

Anyway, it makes me wish I ran with non-Pally tanks so that I don't have to worry about it. Hey Shoju, how about morphing into a big, furry bear butt to tank?

Cheers,


editted out some other pieces

A) is not a problem, DP does NOT cause Forbearance now remember. Yah, you can't LoH your tank, followed by himself doing the same for 60 sec.

Probably the biggest issue I see with this is if a Holy pally (or ret) casts LoH and you (the tank) need to bubble to clear a debuff (Clearing frost stacks on Conclave or healing debuff on Halfus for example) and have been locked out. As someone mentioned above, I think you just need to coordinate with your other paladins on this one.

Hell, the fact that we even HAVE the ability to clear a debuff with Divine Shield still gives us a big advantage. And it transfer over to other tanks if you HoP them to clear a debuff or vice-versa. (Healer LoH on the Druid tank, you now can't HoP him to clear a debuff for 60 sec either) so at least that is fairly even.
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Re: LoH off the GCD ... !!

Postby sherck » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:09 am

Okay, color me wrong. I had not realized that DP did not cause Forbearance.

And use of DS to clear debuffs is a large part of many fights but you are correct in that coordination needs to take place to deconflict.

Nothing to see here....move along. These are not the droids you are looking for.

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Re: LoH off the GCD ... !!

Postby Worldie » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:32 am

I don't see the problem with other paladin's LoH causing forbearance. If you are in a moment where you need to LoH, it doesnt really matter if it's yours or another paladin's one, you still get one.

Actually this change will prevent you (or the other pala dependin on who's quicker) to not waste his LoH.
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Re: LoH off the GCD ... !!

Postby Aubade » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:35 am

Worldie wrote:I don't see the problem with other paladin's LoH causing forbearance. If you are in a moment where you need to LoH, it doesnt really matter if it's yours or another paladin's one, you still get one.

Actually this change will prevent you (or the other pala dependin on who's quicker) to not waste his LoH.



I'm with worldie on this one.
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Re: LoH off the GCD ... !!

Postby PsiVen » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:25 am

Hell, I even like the 60 sec lockout preventing 'wasted' LoHs due to multiple paladins panicking at once.


You'd think so, but Blessing of Protection has a long history proving otherwise :P
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Re: LoH off the GCD ... !!

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:40 am

PsiVen wrote:
Hell, I even like the 60 sec lockout preventing 'wasted' LoHs due to multiple paladins panicking at once.


You'd think so, but Blessing of Protection has a long history proving otherwise :P


Yeah this was definitely the first thing I thought of when I read this. Yeah that SOUNDS nice, but will it WORK.
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Re: LoH off the GCD ... !!

Postby Treck » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:33 pm

If shit happends, and people panic with using LoH, multiple LoH will be able to go down at once, the slow paladins beeing a sec or 2 slower than the others will however not waste his LoH.
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Re: LoH off the GCD ... !!

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:53 pm

PsiVen wrote:You'd think so, but Blessing of Protection has a long history proving otherwise :P


I'm unclear on what you mean -- can you clarify?
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Re: LoH off the GCD ... !!

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:01 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:
PsiVen wrote:You'd think so, but Blessing of Protection has a long history proving otherwise :P


I'm unclear on what you mean -- can you clarify?


Paladin A: Oh shit I need to BoP this mage!
Paladin B: Oh shit I need to BoP this mage!
*both Paladins cast BoP on the mage at pretty much the same time*
Mage: Thanks for the BoP!
Paladin A&B Simultaneously: You're welcome. Hey wait a minute.
Paladin A: Did your cooldown get used?
Paladin B: Yeah, did yours?
Paladin A: Yeah.
Paladins A&B: fffffffffffff
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