Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Mcduffie » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:37 pm

Part of me wants to add "have cookies" to the list.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Juugimus » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:41 pm

Nikachelle wrote:
Mcduffie wrote:Raid leading is hard. And having people that undermine the raid leader with things like "we shouldn't do it this way, we should do it THIS way" is frustrating. Especially when the RL has seen that his strat works, and has spent hours going over all available options.

Granted, I don't know your situation. But I know it's frustrating when I have Joeshmo suggesting "hey, let's tank him over here so we don't get xyz" and having to explain why he's wrong.

Basically, trust your raid leader. Keep your faith in him. If you don't, it'll get you killed. If you have sound advice, add it. But if your "sound advice" is just a knee-jerk thought, keep it to yourself.

Meh, yes and no. I raid lead, and I appreciate input from my raiders. I look up strats just like everyone else, but if I suggest something and they think it's wrong, I'd like to hear it, along with an explanation of why, or what could work better. Raiding is a collaborative effort and no one is ALWAYS RIGHT NO MATTER WHAT. The raid leader is no exception to this. That being said, a raider is not to voice their opinion mid-battle. Between battles, sure, but mid-fight when the RL may be trying to give instruction is just poor timing and thoughtless.

I don't think it's undermining to suggest why an RL might be wrong. It's only undermining/demeaning if you perceive it that way.


As a raid leader, I'm always open to ideas IN WHISPERS. Or on our forums. I let everyone know I want their ideas. But even between battles, I've found that having too many people bouncing ideas back and forth just tends to confuse people about what you're going to try and leads to a sense that the raid is not organized. Having one or two voices being the ones giving out strats makes sure everyone knows what we're doing.

For example. Raider X may suggest a tweak to our strat that may help along with Raiders Y and Z. Instead of having three different strats bouncing around vent. I acknowledge all three in whispers then announce on vent "Raider X had a good idea we're going to try this."

I don't take credit for the ideas, people get their just due. And at the same time, you don't have half your raid wondering, "Are we doing the original strat, strat x, y, or z?"
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:48 pm

Juugimus wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:
Mcduffie wrote:Raid leading is hard. And having people that undermine the raid leader with things like "we shouldn't do it this way, we should do it THIS way" is frustrating. Especially when the RL has seen that his strat works, and has spent hours going over all available options.

Granted, I don't know your situation. But I know it's frustrating when I have Joeshmo suggesting "hey, let's tank him over here so we don't get xyz" and having to explain why he's wrong.

Basically, trust your raid leader. Keep your faith in him. If you don't, it'll get you killed. If you have sound advice, add it. But if your "sound advice" is just a knee-jerk thought, keep it to yourself.

Meh, yes and no. I raid lead, and I appreciate input from my raiders. I look up strats just like everyone else, but if I suggest something and they think it's wrong, I'd like to hear it, along with an explanation of why, or what could work better. Raiding is a collaborative effort and no one is ALWAYS RIGHT NO MATTER WHAT. The raid leader is no exception to this. That being said, a raider is not to voice their opinion mid-battle. Between battles, sure, but mid-fight when the RL may be trying to give instruction is just poor timing and thoughtless.

I don't think it's undermining to suggest why an RL might be wrong. It's only undermining/demeaning if you perceive it that way.


As a raid leader, I'm always open to ideas IN WHISPERS. Or on our forums. I let everyone know I want their ideas. But even between battles, I've found that having too many people bouncing ideas back and forth just tends to confuse people about what you're going to try and leads to a sense that the raid is not organized. Having one or two voices being the ones giving out strats makes sure everyone knows what we're doing.

For example. Raider X may suggest a tweak to our strat that may help along with Raiders Y and Z. Instead of having three different strats bouncing around vent. I acknowledge all three in whispers then announce on vent "Raider X had a good idea we're going to try this."

I don't take credit for the ideas, people get their just due. And at the same time, you don't have half your raid wondering, "Are we doing the original strat, strat x, y, or z?"


I think whispers are too cumbersome for that and let people bounce ideas around in Vent, then cut in with a "Ok guys we're going to do X"
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Juugimus » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:52 pm

One thing I would add is give your players a clear indication of where they can improve and a path to getting there. I often have informal one-on-one meetings with my members where we will open up a world of logs report to look at some fights and compare their performances vs the performances of some of the top people in their class.

Some times I find that I am not getting them a buff they need. Some times we find little things in their rotation. I ask if there's something that they want to get off their chests or if they have any questions for me.

It's time consuming sometimes, but it's important that my members know they can talk to me. Maybe more importantly, it's more productive than just saying DO MORE DPS!!!! It helps them know what I expect from them and it makes sure I am putting them in the best spot to be successful.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Juugimus » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:59 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
Juugimus wrote:
As a raid leader, I'm always open to ideas IN WHISPERS. Or on our forums. I let everyone know I want their ideas. But even between battles, I've found that having too many people bouncing ideas back and forth just tends to confuse people about what you're going to try and leads to a sense that the raid is not organized. Having one or two voices being the ones giving out strats makes sure everyone knows what we're doing.

For example. Raider X may suggest a tweak to our strat that may help along with Raiders Y and Z. Instead of having three different strats bouncing around vent. I acknowledge all three in whispers then announce on vent "Raider X had a good idea we're going to try this."

I don't take credit for the ideas, people get their just due. And at the same time, you don't have half your raid wondering, "Are we doing the original strat, strat x, y, or z?"


I think whispers are too cumbersome for that and let people bounce ideas around in Vent, then cut in with a "Ok guys we're going to do X"


It can be cumbersome for sure. But I try to avoid scenarios like:

Why are you doing that?
Because you told me to.
No we're doing X
I thought that was in X
No, that's in Y
Well, what's in X again?
(explains X)
Someone else: What about .....?
That's in Z, we're doing X
/confused.
Alright, let's go over it again...

But each raid is different for sure. Have to use what works for your raid.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Brekkie » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:34 pm

I always found whispers impossible to handle. Maybe it works in a 10-man guild, or when people have ideas to contribute only occasionally. But for me, in a 25 man guild where pretty much every single person in the raiding roster cared a lot about the strat and had strong opinions and ideas on what would work best, there was simply no way I could even KEEP UP with how fast my chat log would scroll with wall-of-text whispers if I didn't make absolutely clear I wasn't able to read them.
Particularly when I needed to be monitoring multiple class/role chat channels, as well as officer chat.

Allowing whispers to me when raid leading made my chat scroll faster than trade chat on Illidan.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Vrimmel » Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:13 am

I think a lot of people here have a different opinion of what makes a great guild. For some it's only the social environment, for others it's about getting a server/world first or at least close. Although both of those done successfully should have a good social environment, the recipe for each is quite different.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby thegreatheed » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:33 am

Njall wrote:It is not enough not to be a dick but one must stop others from being a dick... as it were.


Clear expectations and "rules". Whatever that means to you. If rules aren't clear, you can't be fair in enforcing them and kicking the bad apples. If the rules are clear, you kick them, then when they ask why, you can point to a) b) and d). You then cannot be accused of favoritism or unfairness.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Malthrax » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:44 am

thegreatheed wrote:
Njall wrote:It is not enough not to be a dick but one must stop others from being a dick... as it were.


Clear expectations and "rules". Whatever that means to you. If rules aren't clear, you can't be fair in enforcing them and kicking the bad apples. If the rules are clear, you kick them, then when they ask why, you can point to a) b) and d). You then cannot be accused of favoritism or unfairness.

Have you ever been in a guild where the rules were purposely unclear, specifically so no one "in charge" could ever be called on to enforce them, or if they were, they could say "eh.. the rules don't specifically say that"?

I was. It sucked.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Njall » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:49 am

Malthrax wrote:Have you ever been in a guild where the rules were purposely unclear, specifically so no one "in charge" could ever be called on to enforce them, or if they were, they could say "eh.. the rules don't specifically say that"?

I was. It sucked.


Yes, it can be. Or the rules were specifically being used/twisted by a small core group until the rest of the guild abandoned them. Of course, if you have rules, people will game them - especially considering the kind of personalities gaming attracts. Gaming the guild rules is also being dickish.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Vrimmel » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:37 pm

And of course you need someone to uphold the rules. My previous guild had pretty clear rules, but the GM did not care enough about enforcing them resulting in people showing to raids without consumables, knowledge of encounters and of course being late.

I'm sure I'm not the only one out there who has been in a guild who actually starts raiding 30 minutes after scheduled raid time.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:19 am

I hate that, but I've always been stuck with it. Even when I was the one organising raids and made it clear people need to turn up and be ready before the start time. Completely unenforceable when you don't have enough raiders to bench people, unfortunately.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Nikachelle » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:27 am

Dock them dkp and award others dkp for being on time.

Worked wonders for me. I went from being a raider in a guild where we could start an HOUR after raid "start" time, to being a raid leader that has everyone online and at the stone, fifteen minutes before raid start time. In fact, sometimes they're so good about being online that our first pull is ten minutes before the official start time.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Njall » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:30 am

Yes. Our guild awards 2 dkp for showing up on time and 2 dkp for staying till the end of the raid - more if it is a progression night.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:31 am

I've also never been in a guild (well I've only been in two total) that had a real loot system beyond /rolls. First guild was a casual friends guild that barely raided and wouldn't have gone for anythingl ike dkp, second guild had well established "/roll, one drop a night unless noone else wants" system they wouldn't have moved away from. That one left me neck and bracer-less for the whole of ICC, thanks to a high second-tank turnover.
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