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Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Mcduffie » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:13 pm

I totally agree with thatguy. I love raiding, but there's no way I could even begin to compare it to real-life sports experiences. Losing was more exciting and compelling in real-life than winning is in WoW.

(Though, if you're Charlie Sheen, you can lose AND win, and bi-win in real life and WoW. But only if you have tiger blood.)

But, that's just my opinion on the issue. If you believe WoW is going to take you further than any real-life team activity... well... uh... yeah. I wish you well on your endeavor.

Overall, though, that's just people's opinion on the comparison between raiding and real-life team stuff. If you want to talk about it, please start a new thread and rant away.

In other news:

Last Wednesday, I was getting online to raid with the guild. We had lost Awbade (sad day), and one of our best dps, but we were soldiering on. The GM and the other head officer tell me FIFTEEN MINUTES BEFORE RAID TIME, that we need to have a guild meeting right now. And that we're not raiding tonight... I was furious. They said they wanted to take a two-week break, and they were focused on being a good guild, but not a serious one.

"In Wrath, we were known for being one of the first guilds that could down Lich King with PuGs. We like that casual play style."
"You didn't down LK until almost the very end of Wrath. Then you touted your achievement like you were badass. THAT is what you want?"
"Well, I don't think anyone touted it..."

They took a vote, and taking a break won out 5-4. I left the guild, so did my buddy, and the others that voted against were eternally bummed. We were 9/12, then we lost Awbade and our dps. We were only able to do 4/12 after that. I leave in a week or so to go to training for a deployment, so I really have nothing to want from them at this point.

My bet: they're not going to complete current content until well after 4.1. Probably not until after the next major raid patch. But I guess I just wasn't on the same page as their goals. Sadly, I've lost some of my irl friends in the process. :shock:
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:18 pm

thatguy wrote:I'll bow out from this thread. I've necro'ed it horribly and haven't added anything to it. I agree that people have their own differing values and I respect that. I shouldn't have tried to force my own values on you all here. I need to remember that this is the internet and you can't win at it.

I apologize for stirring the pot.


Aww, man. Did sports teach you to run away after making a bad assertion too? :lol: I kid, I kid.

Nothing wrong with pot stirring; I don't know a single recipe that advocates letting everything sink to the bottom of the pot and congeal there (and I cook a lot).

Now implying that "sirring the pot" isn't good? That's a bad analogy.

Back on topic: raiding as a team sport would be vastly improved if there was negative feedback associated with screwing up. My next invention will be for a USB adapter that will apply a mild shock to a raider's nether regions based on a grid+clique combination from the raid leader.

@MacD: I'd argue you'll learn more about, say, managing contract programmers on the other side of the world across the internet from WoW than you will from playing football. I'd argue you learn more about JIT process management from playing WoW than from playing baseball. I'd argue you learn more about technology from playing WoW than you will from playing basketball. Paradigms and processes are changing, and I would argue that things in the future will have more in common with WoW than the local little league.

Mcduffie wrote:If you believe WoW is going to take you further than any real-life team activity... well... uh... yeah. I wish you well on your endeavor.


I've hired plenty of geeks and gamers. I've never hired a jock.

So... well ... uh ... yeah. :lol:
Last edited by fuzzygeek on Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Bladesong » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:23 pm

I've been playing video games since the original Atari system (I'm 42). My nearly life long enjoyment of games led me to get into the video game industry and this August will mark my 15th year of being in one of the more awesome industries one can be in. I still love to joke about it with my parents: "Hey, remember when you said that I should stop wasting my time on video games? ...<Peter Griffith laugh>" Parents will always freak out when they see their kids doing something they don't understand - in 20 years most parents will themselves have grown up with video games and it will be a non-issue.

I've also played soccer non-stop since I was a kid. I do it because I love it, not because I think it's going to benefit me somehow. As much as I love it, it has brought me a raft of injuries, including last year when I rolled to a stop thinking I'd sprained my ankle (again) and instead saw that my foot was sticking sideways off of my shin :shock: I'm playing again (with a brace), but the fallout from that injury will be with me for the rest of my life.

It seems like everything's a trade-off :lol:
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby cerwillis » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:32 pm

There is no surprise to me that this is a sensitive subject here. Many of us made the effort to get outside and try out for the sports team in order to fit in when we were in grade/high school. In some cases, I'm sure this ended well, for others it ended in failure, bullying, parental rejection, etc. Personally, My older brother is a very athletic and competitive person, (I'm neither). A very early success in life was to be able to beat him occasionally in Super Mario Bros.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:48 pm

Bladesong wrote:I've been playing video games since the original Atari system (I'm 42). My nearly life long enjoyment of games led me to get into the video game industry and this August will mark my 15th year of being in one of the more awesome industries one can be in. I still love to joke about it with my parents: "Hey, remember when you said that I should stop wasting my time on video games? ...<Peter Griffith laugh>" Parents will always freak out when they see their kids doing something they don't understand - in 20 years most parents will themselves have grown up with video games and it will be a non-issue.

I've also played soccer non-stop since I was a kid. I do it because I love it, not because I think it's going to benefit me somehow. As much as I love it, it has brought me a raft of injuries, including last year when I rolled to a stop thinking I'd sprained my ankle (again) and instead saw that my foot was sticking sideways off of my shin :shock: I'm playing again (with a brace), but the fallout from that injury will be with me for the rest of my life.

It seems like everything's a trade-off :lol:


this post made me smile. I don't suppose you'd mind telling us where you work? to us mere consumers of content the game industry always sounds like a magical place with unicorns and fairydust and such.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby PsiVen » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:00 pm

Mcduffie wrote:But, that's just my opinion on the issue. If you believe WoW is going to take you further than any real-life team activity... well... uh... yeah. I wish you well on your endeavor.

Overall, though, that's just people's opinion on the comparison between raiding and real-life team stuff. If you want to talk about it, please start a new thread and rant away.


This isn't dropping an argument, this is trying to get in the last word. If it's just your opinion, keep it just to yourself if you expect others to do the same. However, since I can't really tell what this thread is supposed to be about anymore, I'll go ahead and throw in my two cents.

You can extol the virtues of sports all you like, but the moment you step into putting down something else is where you cross a line into "winning." It's one thing to support your beliefs positively, and quite another to directly refute others'. There are many parallels between "real" team sports and WoW raiding, chief among them that there are real people involved every step of the way. The relationship dynamics are certainly different, but saying "it's just a game" and bailing on a progression raid is much the same as, say, bailing on an important practice before the big game. You're screwing over X other people by not being there, and most people would be understandably pissed at the guy who bailed, even if they wound up winning the next day. The people that make poor raiders are the ones who don't understand that it's a team endeavor and that other people are depending on their commitment, even if it is just a commitment to get together with friends and play a game (of WoW, baseball, Peruvian monkey ball, etc.)

Absolutely, playing sports has positive side effects on physical health while WoW certainly doesn't. Neither does working in a physics lab, by the way, or an emergency room. There are lots of things you can do that if anything have a negative effect on your health, and if that's all you're doing it won't be good for you. Your entire high school class (minus the members of various sports teams) are not going to die of heart attacks by age 45 just because they don't share the exact same lifestyle.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:27 am

Someone sort of touched on this earlier, but a lot of parents don't understand the social aspect of the game, and likely also don't understand that you have 9/24 other people waiting on you while you have to do the dishes. Not all parents are like fuzzygeek and play WoW with their kids, or even pay enough attention to it while their kids are playing to realize any of the above. I would venture to guess the majority of parents view it as "just a video game." I had a difficult enough time getting my parents to let me play a game "until I reach a save point" much less trying to explain to them that this is our raiding night, and these other people are expecting me to be there. I'd imagine some communication between the parents and raid leads wouldn't be a bad idea. This giving the added benefit of getting an idea of who your kids are "hanging out with" on a regular basis.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Brekkie » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:45 am

This is why I've always liked LARP.

You get to face epic challenges in a fantasy world with a team of comrades...AND run around outside!
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby claisa » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:24 am

yay Larp, standing around outside drinking lager and smoking whilst stabbing people in the dark.

But to make this post relevent i would suggest if you are a larper make sure you and your larp mates are spread around various guilds on various servers so when the big events occur you don't cripple your guild by taking half the raid team away with you for 5 days.

I am always warey about recruiting larp friends to our team.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Mcduffie » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:16 am

Congratulations to everyone using their video game skills in real life!

So, how's your guild's going?
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby cerwillis » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 am

Mcduffie wrote:Congratulations to everyone using their video game skills in real life!

So, how's your guild's going?

I'm suddenly faced with the problem of too many raiders, so I'm having to bench 3-5 people each time, which is no fun. Unfortunately we don't have enough core players to form a B team, and I certainly don't want to RL another night of the week. Thankfully my guys are understanding and I try to make it so that no one gets sat for more than one raid in a row. I have 3 mages however, so they are on a 1 on 2 off rotation that seems to work for them.

This of course means that we are teaching the fights to new people each time, so that can be frustrating as well, but we do have a solid core of 3 healers 2 tanks and a strong hunter. I think I still prefer this problem to having to find PuG healers in Wrath.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Mcduffie » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:22 am

If it were me running your show, I would try to rank everyone by performance, and form my "A" team off of that. Then I would use an alt to raid lead an "alt" run, for anyone that didn't get to go on the A team run. The alt run would probably be mostly pugs as well.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby cerwillis » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:39 am

Mcduffie wrote:If it were me running your show, I would try to rank everyone by performance, and form my "A" team off of that. Then I would use an alt to raid lead an "alt" run, for anyone that didn't get to go on the A team run. The alt run would probably be mostly pugs as well.

The whole performance ranking is a can of worms that I'm not trying to open. All of our ranked raiders are people that I consider at least competent, so I don't feel like we are carrying anyone, relative to everyone else. (The DPS issues that I brought up in another thread have been largely resolved.) Ultimately, I consider all of them my friends so we do try to be inclusive.
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Re: Tips to Make Your Guild Awesome

Postby Mcduffie » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:50 am

Business and friends are dangerous things to mix.
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