Patch update from mmo-champion

[Palisade]

That GCD is worth a lot more spent on WoG.

So don't use it on a GCD when you would use WoG?

Ill rephrase then.
That GCD is worth more using crusader strike to power up the incoming WoG

I think you're trying to devalue the benefit of GoN at the future buffed state. It will be situationally useful, just like all the other racials (except Nelf which can't be pallies.)

Even stone form at 10% damage reduction won't be worth using every cool down, imho. There will be 'priority' uses of our GCD in 'situation normal' environments. But in Situation Normal All Fucked Up, you can be damned sure I'll be using Stone form on my dwarf or GoN on my space goat.

[Amirya]

but does any serious tank have herbalism?

I do, on my draenei warrior. It was a decent "oh shit" last minute puny heal when it actually healed. Now that it heals for midgetly amounts, and is for haste...I don't know if I will keep it.

[Aerron]

I'd rank Humans only just above Gnome.

One could make an argument that diplomacy is still the best racial in the game.

[twinkfist]

i was thinking of moving my draenei pally back to human pally just for diplomacy. i had converted him from human to draenei.

then again, i have another human pally that i was leveling towards the end of wrath...because he was going to be my pve ret and pvp ret pally...but now, who knows.

[cerwillis]

While any buff to Stoneform is a good thing, I'm getting a little put off by the fact that all my paladin gets in the way of new utility is DR CDs.

DP = Baseline (20%)
AD = 31 talent points (20% +get out of death free card)
GanK = lvl 85 (50%)
Engineering = gloves (armor) belt (absorb)
Stoneform = 10%
Trinkets = avoidance, health pool, etc.

Honestly, I think I could hearth to SW and have tea with Varian faster than it would take me to use all of those CDs. Is the answer to macro them? It's not abundantly clear which if any of these stack, so that would require research... We will see if I can be quick enough to decide which (only slightly different) button to push in a given situation. Or I will just use GanK-AD-DP the way I have been so far.

[Thrornir]

Sorry... are you complaining about having... too many cooldowns? On raid bosses, I've used each and every one of them, and I could still use more. Not going to complain about stoneform being changed from make bleeds go away and increase armor to also make magic hurt less.

[Chunes]

I know this isn't MainDKadin, but anyone else read the changes to DK's and think they kind of got shit on a little?

My co tank is a DK and he's pretty worried the self heal nerf on DS will adversely affect his mastery and overall damage intake.

:S

[sahiel]

I think DKs were already far enough ahead that the changes are just going to bring them down to everyone else's level, a good DK who knows how to time DS was taking less damage and needing less healing than any other tank by a decent margin. Also, the nerfs aren't really as bad as listed, DS was already down to 20% on live so it's 20>15, rather than 25>15, the tooltip just hadn't been changed. The armor nerf might possibly be too much, i'm a little surprised they didn't go for 40% or 45% but i'm sure if it istoo much it'll be increased before it leaves the PTR.

They also got a small but nice change on IBF that allows it to be used while stunned to break a stun as well as make you immune.

[Flex]

I know this isn't MainDKadin, but anyone else read the changes to DK's and think they kind of got shit on a little?

My co tank is a DK and he's pretty worried the self heal nerf on DS will adversely affect his mastery and overall damage intake.

:S

Pretty sure all of those are already live.

[Dantriges]

A bit strange that we drown in CDs perhaps considering we had a one hour cd once and warriors two rather long ones, but well, times change.

The change to the draenei raical is nice, we´ll see hot the aditional HoT will work in raids. Seems to me that stoneform will still be better.

[Treck]

The change to the draenei raical is nice, we´ll see hot the aditional HoT will work in raids. Seems to me that stoneform will still be better.

With full stack of vengeance, the current version is healing me for 8.4k/tick.
All in all thats more then 20% of my HP.
Not that its really that good eather.
Dont see 10% breaking a fight eather.
Alto id rather take less dmg for a spike than trying to heal it up with a hot.
They both have their uses, in a 25man raid, 10% dmg reduction outwheigh a 20%/15sec hot.

[Amirya]

Am I the only one who missed

Paladin
* Rebuke can now be trained by all paladins at level 54. Existing characters will need to visit their trainer, even if they had talented Rebuke before.

[Zonzede]

Am I the only one who missed

Paladin
* Rebuke can now be trained by all paladins at level 54. Existing characters will need to visit their trainer, even if they had talented Rebuke before.

Nope, that's new. Very nice we get that for tanking.
Also for PvP, I think now I can conceivably keep a clothy from casting anything, ever.

[Gracerath]

I think DKs were already far enough ahead that the changes are just going to bring them down to everyone else's level, a good DK who knows how to time DS was taking less damage and needing less healing than any other tank by a decent margin. Also, the nerfs aren't really as bad as listed, DS was already down to 20% on live so it's 20>15, rather than 25>15, the tooltip just hadn't been changed. The armor nerf might possibly be too much, i'm a little surprised they didn't go for 40% or 45% but i'm sure if it istoo much it'll be increased before it leaves the PTR.

They also got a small but nice change on IBF that allows it to be used while stunned to break a stun as well as make you immune.

The armor thing is just a tooltip correction. It's been 30% for a while.

For anyone else interested, I'll quote Consider about the Death Strike change and its effect on the mastery stat.

Although I won’t delve into it too deeply, as tanking isn’t the main interest here and as there’s likely something missing (there really has to be), but the Death Strike nerf is way over the top, and just plain illogical. It solidly puts mastery below avoidance (and stamina, but it was already there, in my opinion, and with one being a primary stat and the other being secondary, they’re often not in direct competition), essentially killing the stat. It means our damage taken, even if you assume 0% overhealing and near-perfect DS usage, is higher than any of the other three tanks… while also require more attention due to being active instead of passive. Even if DS was too strong by whatever metric, a 25% nerf to the ability is more than was necessary

I think there is still some tweaking to be done.

For my paladin, having Rebuke as prot and holy is a welcome addition.

[Epimer]

"Very nice"? "A welcome addition"?! Holy understatement, Batman! It's an off the GCD interrupt for prot!

I'm so happy I could shit a kitten.