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Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

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Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

Postby trycare » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:49 am

Ran across this today on Penny Arcade and thought I might share it with everyone.

"We have a lot of players at 85 now doing everything from Heroic dungeons to rated Battlegrounds, and the class design team is starting to prepare our list of items to investigate for our next patch.

Before you dive down into the meat below (not really a pleasant image, that), be advised that we’re still early in the preliminary stages. The patch isn’t coming out tomorrow. I wrote this before the end of the year and other things may have cropped up in the meantime. Just because your class or pet problem isn’t mentioned below doesn’t mean we won’t address it.

PvE

We’re happy with damage overall. We have very few traditional tank and spank fights (even Argaloth likes to parry melee) so it’s hard to get consistent numbers without very large data sets. Still, we see Survival hunters and Unholy DKs on top of a lot of single target fights. Arcane, Marksman, and Beastmaster damage is too low. Retribution, Shadow, and Fire and Frost mage damage might be too low, but we’re still watching them. We aren’t seeing a lot of Subtlety rogues in PvE yet, so that sample size is still small. On fights where there is a lot of area damage, Demonology warlocks, Frost DKs and possibly Survival hunters are all too high. Shadow priest AE, mostly due to a weak Mind Sear, feels too low.

Healing in PvE is working out pretty much as intended. There are some Heroic dungeon bosses that are probably tougher than the required item level average permits. In general, you might have a tough time upon zoning into a Heroic dungeon with a bunch of strangers as soon as Dungeon Finder permits, especially if your group isn’t willing to communicate and work together. We want Heroics to be challenging -- if you want to zerg the content, stick to normal dungeons.

Tank balance overall seems good at this point in time. Threat seems to be in a good place -- good tanks don’t have much of a problem, but they can’t “phone it in” either. We’re seeing all four tanks get a lot of use, even on Heroic raid fights. That could change as more guilds are able to make serious heroic attempts.

PvP

The larger health pools, decreased impact of Mortal Strike debuffs, and slower healing are all having the desired effect in PvP. Burst damage has its place, but doesn’t determine the outcome of every encounter. There are several individual abilities that we aren’t happy with in PvP.

We’re keeping a close eye on dispels. We still like the design of making dispels more of a commitment rather than liberally sprinkling around dispel resistance or consequences for every class. Defensive dispels (removing a debuff) generally feel good, but we think offensive dispels (removing an enemy buff) feel too powerful, especially for DPS specs. In particular, Purge and Spellsteal will probably get nerfed.

We’re also looking at crowd control, interrupts, and self-healing in PvP. It’s possible we’ll reduce the durations of some crowd control effects, especially the area effect ones, and decrease the duration of interrupts.

Priests are a little weak in PvP, especially at mobile healing. We have made some changes to glyphs and talents to enhance their survivability and instant healing.

We also want to make sure the epic PvP gear isn’t too easy for just anyone to obtain, given that the PvE endgame content is more challenging than it was in Lich King. We don’t want the player base to just migrate to the most efficient epic delivery mechanism; we want you to participate in what you find most enjoyable.

Stats

We’ll make a pass to make stats that aren’t attractive (but are supposed to be) more attractive. For example, we don’t want Assassination rogues to dismiss crit or Feral tanks to dismiss haste. We are considering making some physical attacks such as Lacerate, Steady Shot, and Slam scale with haste.

Mastery is a new stat for us, and there are a few specs that don’t value it enough. In some cases (e.g. Combat rogues), the design for mastery is fine and we just need to buff the effects to make it more desirable. In others, we don’t think it’s possible to buff mastery enough in its current form. For example, the Retribution mastery, Hand of Light, is fun, but it doesn’t contribute enough damage. To make it contribute enough damage, the proc would need a very high chance, which then can cause paladins to devalue other sources of Holy Power. Instead, we are redesigning Retribution mastery to add a percentage of the damage of Templar’s Verdict, Crusader Strike, and Divine Storm as Holy damage (which also plays better with Inqusition). Because Hand of Light is fun, however, we are going to change Divine Purpose as a chance to proc Hand of Light instead of a chance for extra Holy Power (which will also remove a little of the randomness from the rotation). Unholy DKs are another spec for whom mastery just isn’t working out. Our current intent is to redesign their mastery so that their attacks cause more damage to diseased targets (in a similar manner to the Restoration druid mastery).

Potpourri

Some additional class-specific tweaks (keeping in mind this is not the full list):


* Even after we fixed their mastery, Feral druid bleeds still do a lot of damage and are undispellable. We plan to shift some of that damage back to main attacks. They are also a little too hard to control. Given that they are already hard to root, snare, or polymorph, we think the fear immunity from Berserk is too much.

* Arms warrior burst damage might still be too high in PvP, while we don’t have a great way to adjust their sustained damage for PvE. The Lambs to the Slaughter talent is a good place to address this. We also might nerf warrior stuns.

* We think Arms and Fury warriors are getting too much damage out of Heroic Strike. We want it to be clear that it’s a rage dump and not make it the hardest hitting ability.

* For Holy priests, we’re increasing Chakra’s duration and changing Surge of Light so it can now from Flash Heal and Greater Heal and can crit.

* We’re making some additional buffs, such as Pain Suppression and Barkskin, undispellable.

* We’re buffing Wild Mushroom. It’s a cool spell that isn’t getting enough play.

* Empowered Touch will now benefit from Regrowth as well. We’re also buffing the Glyph of Regrowth.

* We are looking at Holy Concentration (after our most recent buff) and Omen of Clarity to make sure they don’t account for too much mana savings.

* We are probably going to remove Drain Mana from warlocks. It is incredibly situational in PvE but causes problems in PvP. This might mean we need to evaluate Mana Burn as well.

* Inferno will no longer increase the radius of Hellfire.

* Shadow and Flame can now proc from Incinerate in addition to Shadow Bolt.

* We want to redesign Improved Soulfire.

* Censure will no longer break Repentance.

* As part of the Marks and Beastmaster buffs, we’re buffing Aimed Shot, Kill Shot, Chimera Shot, and Kill Command.

* To reduce mage control, we are discussing reducing the duration of Frost Nova and Ring of Frost.

* We want to make it clear that Combat is intended to use fast off-hand weapons. We also want to polish Revealing Strike a bit.

* We want to make sure Enhancement shaman avoid caster weapons.

* We want to make sure Unholy DKs prefer two-handed weapons.

* Necrotic Strike needs to be affected by resilience.

* For Cataclysm, we changed Death Strike almost completely into an ability for Blood DK tanks, which is a bit unfortunate. We want to make sure it is still a useful button for Frost or Unholy DKs who need healing.

* We also want to address DK mobility in PvP.

* We think we overnerfed Every Man for Himself, and are reverting it back to a 2-minute cooldown again. We might evaluate other racials after we’ve seen more PvP.


“GC, is this the final list of changes? Does this mean I can expect no changes for my class? Does this mean you don’t care about me?”

No. This is some stuff we are looking at so that you’ll have some context if you see changes on a future PTR. The final list of class patch notes for the next patch will doubtless be much longer.

-Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft. He uses words like “potpourri.”

IMHO druid bleed nerfs need fixing asap!
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Re: Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

Postby Flex » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:08 am

[sabin]Please do not copy and paste whole passages from other sites.[/sabin]
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
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Re: Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

Postby Gaxby » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:20 am

trycare wrote:Tank balance overall seems good at this point in time. Threat seems to be in a good place -- good tanks don’t have much of a problem, but they can’t “phone it in” either. We’re seeing all four tanks get a lot of use, even on Heroic raid fights. That could change as more guilds are able to make serious heroic attempts.


Of course, did you hear that guys? :lol:
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Re: Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

Postby mavfin » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:51 pm

Gaxby wrote:
trycare wrote:Tank balance overall seems good at this point in time. Threat seems to be in a good place -- good tanks don’t have much of a problem, but they can’t “phone it in” either. We’re seeing all four tanks get a lot of use, even on Heroic raid fights. That could change as more guilds are able to make serious heroic attempts.


Of course, did you hear that guys? :lol:


Are you saying threat is too high, or too low? I'm not having threat issues myself, single-target or AoE, unless the DPS is stupid, which is their fault, not mine...
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Re: Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

Postby Holyblaze » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:11 pm

Hrm...I was not having an issue as a DPS'er vs tanks...as me no dumbester. :lol:

I jumped on my Pally as dps last night for the first time and while I was in BRC w/ a lvl 82 Paladin tank I just had to stand there praying for him to get agg. I checked to see if his RF was up and it was. I checked to see if his Truth was up...it was. bah! WTF over! My pally was my main in Wrath so his gears are much gooder. I replace with Cata when I can, but my Crit was still high last night. haha I am a STR/CRIT whore for my Paladin so I am wondering if my crit chains was just to much. Looked like a hobo tank with his gearz, but had alot more HP than I 9vengance stack and all that). haha When I asked he didnt have an answer..nor did I. The damn hunter has FD so I use that every time its up..so no wonder I dont pull agg with him. pfft!
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Re: Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

Postby Flex » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:23 pm

what
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
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Re: Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

Postby Koatanga » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:40 pm

I was really surprised to read GC believes Combat rogue mastery is as it should be. It's the most retarded of all the masteries, going completely counter to the build model of the spec.

Combat rogues need a fast off-hand weapon in order to increase the number of opportunities they have to gain energy from an off-hand hit. This has been fundamental to a combat build for as long as I can remember.

Then along comes mastery which grants a extra non-normalised off-hand strike. Well, any time you get a free strike, you want it to be as big as possible, don't you? So combat mastery favours a slow off-hand weapon.

With the exception of normalising the damage proc of combat mastery, I don't see what they can do to make mastery attractive for combat rogues without making rogues favour slow off-hand weapons (which would be better for loot tables anyway).
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Re: Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

Postby Flex » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:44 pm

I thought the mastery proc was normalized and part of the issue is that they aren't making fast 1H Swords/Maces/Axes/Fists.
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Re: Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

Postby Gaxby » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:10 pm

mavfin wrote:
Gaxby wrote:
trycare wrote:Tank balance overall seems good at this point in time. Threat seems to be in a good place -- good tanks don’t have much of a problem, but they can’t “phone it in” either. We’re seeing all four tanks get a lot of use, even on Heroic raid fights. That could change as more guilds are able to make serious heroic attempts.


Of course, did you hear that guys? :lol:


Are you saying threat is too high, or too low? I'm not having threat issues myself, single-target or AoE, unless the DPS is stupid, which is their fault, not mine...


Too high on bosses, too low on trash. In other words, it's scaling poorly at the moment.
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Re: Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

Postby degre » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:42 pm

Gaxby wrote:Too high on bosses, too low on trash. In other words, it's scaling poorly at the moment.

To be fair, I dont see any problem on trash either, most of the stuff is now so big that is almost a boss itself... with multiple targets I'm the tank who gets the first as I'm better able to generate aggro, and unless weird things happen, like a streak of miss on my side while DPS are getting crit are crit, I honestly have no issue at all on trash too, if DPS arent retard.

As for bosses, well... if I didnt have to move or else, after a while I could just leave autoattack and go afk... at least I've got to be thankful there's something to pay attention to that keeps me awake, but in a way, that little I've seen, having to move and pay attention to lots of stuff, to me makes up for not having to worry abot threat.
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Re: Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

Postby PsiVen » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:17 pm

Well it's not trash vs. boss, it's vengeance vs. no vengeance. Ramp up time is pretty silly right now and a DPS can easily rip aggro in the first 30 seconds but has no chance later on.
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Re: Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

Postby Mannstein » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:20 am

PsiVen wrote:Well it's not trash vs. boss, it's vengeance vs. no vengeance. Ramp up time is pretty silly right now and a DPS can easily rip aggro in the first 30 seconds but has no chance later on keeping with the Tank DPS.


Corrected :D
Threat is meaningless when in 10men boss fight, when i see the dps´s struggling to keep up with the tanks damage.
In Wirmbreaker my TV goes for 60k againts the Prot's 100k Shield's.. :S, or the prot pala 20k AOE dps... :D
But to be honest it's different when you have multiple tank switch's during a fight...
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Re: Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

Postby inthedrops » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:18 am

We're into it many weeks now at level 85 with Vengeance and raiding. I disliked Vengeance at 80 and the consensus was "wait until 85 before you complain. It was designed with level 85 in mind".

Here I am at 85, Vengeance mechanic still sucks. It's not as bad because we do get hit harder so it does actually stack up in raids. But I'm already at the point where heroics it doesn't stack. The start of fights can get a little scary in raids sometimes, etc.

In other words, it's not as bad as 80, but the same problem still exists.
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Re: Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:35 am

inthedrops wrote:We're into it many weeks now at level 85 with Vengeance and raiding. I disliked Vengeance at 80 and the consensus was "wait until 85 before you complain. It was designed with level 85 in mind".

Here I am at 85, Vengeance mechanic still sucks. It's not as bad because we do get hit harder so it does actually stack up in raids. But I'm already at the point where heroics it doesn't stack. The start of fights can get a little scary in raids sometimes, etc.

In other words, it's not as bad as 80, but the same problem still exists.


You mean the problem where we don't do enough damage with 0 vengeance to have aggro over DPS? I'm not having the same experience. I do more than enough damage with 0 vengeance to have aggro as long as the DPS are actually attacking my target. I mean, maybe my DPS suck? I don't think so. But in any case, I don't see the issue.
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Re: Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

Postby Chunes » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:39 am

Sabindeus wrote:
inthedrops wrote:We're into it many weeks now at level 85 with Vengeance and raiding. I disliked Vengeance at 80 and the consensus was "wait until 85 before you complain. It was designed with level 85 in mind".

Here I am at 85, Vengeance mechanic still sucks. It's not as bad because we do get hit harder so it does actually stack up in raids. But I'm already at the point where heroics it doesn't stack. The start of fights can get a little scary in raids sometimes, etc.

In other words, it's not as bad as 80, but the same problem still exists.


You mean the problem where we don't do enough damage with 0 vengeance to have aggro over DPS? I'm not having the same experience. I do more than enough damage with 0 vengeance to have aggro as long as the DPS are actually attacking my target. I mean, maybe my DPS suck? I don't think so. But in any case, I don't see the issue.


I think your DPS might not be stellar. I run with two, very competent frost DK's as well as a hunter that is a phenomenal player. All three of them ride my ass in threat in heroics. The hunter's a non-issue since he can rely on feign, but the two frost DK's will consistently pull 18-20k tps on single target, while I'm doing everything I can to stay ahead of them @ 22-25k tps.

It's not really a big deal once I have like 30% vengeance and I get a ShoR crit or two, but I can see this becoming a problem if DPS scales quicker than our stam -> vengeance scales. I like vengeance for it's function in raid content, however I still think it suffers in heroics because it does not stack fast enough or high enough.

I'm @ 28 expertise and hitcapped as well which makes this more troublesome to me.
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