Selfish Guildmates

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Selfish Guildmates

Postby mosa » Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:58 am

Hi
How do I work with people who are primary motivated by their own self interests? I mean at some level we are all motivated by our own success but does WOW emphasize this?

I am currently noticing that people only want to run heroics with equivalently geared people (**Edit not my gear, but other guildies, I'm 346 item level with 159 K health unbuffed) (not a skill situation, but gear situation) even though they will need those people to raid with. I see this as self defeating in the long run...but obviously it's rewarding in the short term.

I also have been recently turned down by two guild mates on a transmute, which is a daily cool down, because they, in one case want to play the AH, and in another are saving the cool down for the Alchemy mount which, while cool, does not enhance our raid performance.

Are my expectations too high? Should I play in a more selfish manner and join the ranks? Should I look for another guild? Should I refuse to help these people in return?

What killed wow for me last time was these kind of attitudes, As a MT, Raid Leader, and GM I took tremendous satisfaction from guild accomplishments, am I a minority in this?

How do you guys deal with this BS and how should I deal with these feelings before I hate WOW again.
Last edited by mosa on Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Selfish Guildmates

Postby Invisusira » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:08 am

I think you're being a bit grumpy about it. The only one I can see your side on is the AH one.

Carrying guildies through dungeons that they're not geared for isn't sometime many people do. In most cases, it would be a bit rude and awkward if an undergeared guildy asked to come to one.

And now, one week into the expansion, you can pretty safely bet that transmutes are still a well-used commodity.

As someone who now plays WAY less and has burned out multiple times, I understand your RL mentality. My advice is to not worry so much about "does not enhance our raid performance" and remember that this is a game. And people just want to have fun. If people aren't having fun, you won't have ANY raid performance.
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Re: Selfish Guildmates

Postby Tev » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:19 am

Honestly, daily cooldowns are seperate from 'guild issues' in my opinion. Unless someone has been given the title of "Guild Alchemist" and has agreed to contribute their time and cooldowns for the guild (usually in return getting priority access to the guild resources to level up) then you shouldn't expect anything without being willing to offer money comparible to what they could get selling their cooldown to someone else. Similarly, if they aren't a friend you hang out with pretty much every time you log on, and many times outside of the game, then you shouldn't expect anything for free.

Unfortunately I can't really give you any solid answers, only advice. Guild Mates are like Co Workers, you work along side them for a common goal, but outside the job (raid) everyone has their own life and does their own thing. If you find someone that is willing to help you, great, but unless it is something that is established by the guild rulebook, don't expect it to happen :?

As for running heroics with similarly geared people, is there a reason for them to think that you are undergeared? Are you undergeared and just hoping you'll be allowed into an instance you should haved worked harder on your gear for before entering? I can't really comment much on this as I don't know what instances your running, what gear you have been using and so on. But are you 'Wanting to run the instance with them' or do you 'What them to run you through the instance'. The difference between these 2 options is a gear issue because of the higher difficulty found in the new instances.
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Re: Selfish Guildmates

Postby mosa » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:25 am

Tev wrote:Honestly, daily cooldowns are seperate from 'guild issues' in my opinion. Unless someone has been given the title of "Guild Alchemist" and has agreed to contribute their time and cooldowns for the guild (usually in return getting priority access to the guild resources to level up) then you shouldn't expect anything without being willing to offer money comparible to what they could get selling their cooldown to someone else. Similarly, if they aren't a friend you hang out with pretty much every time you log on, and many times outside of the game, then you shouldn't expect anything for free.

Unfortunately I can't really give you any solid answers, only advice. Guild Mates are like Co Workers, you work along side them for a common goal, but outside the job (raid) everyone has their own life and does their own thing. If you find someone that is willing to help you, great, but unless it is something that is established by the guild rulebook, don't expect it to happen :?

As for running heroics with similarly geared people, is there a reason for them to think that you are undergeared? Are you undergeared and just hoping you'll be allowed into an instance you should haved worked harder on your gear for before entering? I can't really comment much on this as I don't know what instances your running, what gear you have been using and so on. But are you 'Wanting to run the instance with them' or do you 'What them to run you through the instance'. The difference between these 2 options is a gear issue because of the higher difficulty found in the new instances.



I guess I didn't clarify... I'm not the under geared person here, I see people doing this to other guildies.... I'm 346 gear level with 159 K unbuffed health. I will usually go out of my way to ensure people get in their daily heroics, or people get in runs etc. We had other people who were slower to level to 85, and we will need some of these people to run raids with, so I think we should put ourselves out to help them if they are quality raiders, but others don't feel this way.

Edit: Guess my sig is broken... went to update, but I logged in my ret spec / gear, derp.
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Re: Selfish Guildmates

Postby Tev » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:51 am

Sorry, I had misread regarding helping undergeared people through instances (too many distractions at work :wink: ) but I think it comes down to how 'hardcore' does your guild consider itself. If everyone else is content to play around when you want to push new content, then maybe you need to consider a different guild. I know I had this happen when BC came out and the guild eventually just fell apart. It sounds like you have a similar situation, people in your guild have new content fever, they don't want to help people catch up to raid because they want to do their own thing.

In the end it will probably come down to your guilds leadership having to decide on either standing by until enough people level/gear up to push new content, or to administer an ultimatum that if you aren't lvl 85 with heroic instance gear, you will be booted, or put on 'passive' status with low priority on raid position and loot.
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Re: Selfish Guildmates

Postby sherck » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:21 am

My 2 cents.

It is difficult being the only guy that you think is doing the "right" thing. I can see where it would be frusterting if you think you are the only guy in the guild helping out, and organizing things for slower levelers, or giving up of your personal profit in order to advance others in the guild.

You really have 2 choices in my opinion:

1. Realize that this is life and deal. People are selfish. People have different outlooks to life. People have different enjoyments. If they do not aline with yours, your choice is to either accept it or...

2. Go find a group of people who think like you do. I have been playing the game for over 3 years and have spent time in 14 different guilds and I only found the guild that I think aligns to my (or I align to their) needs, wants and desires in the game in the past 3 months. Some of the guilds that I was in were superior raiders but were too time intensive. Some had larger player bases but were more selfish.

But none were more caring or understanding of being able to accept my time contraints in the game or how I wanted to play it. <Lurkers> rocks.

So, I am not saying anything you don't already know but in life, you either learn to deal with the life around you our you go set up shop somewhere else.

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Re: Selfish Guildmates

Postby Njall » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:25 am

I help out people in my guild. If they don't bother to reciprocate, then I don't bother helping them in the future. That's what my friend list is for. These are folks I help and I know that I can often count on to give me some assistance if need be.
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Re: Selfish Guildmates

Postby culhag » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:14 am

mosa wrote:I also have been recently turned down by two guild mates on a transmute, which is a daily cool down, because they, in one case want to play the AH, and in another are saving the cool down for the Alchemy mount which, while cool, does not enhance our raid performance.

Sorry but I'll side with the alchemists on this one.
Unless it's guild policy that they should give out their stuff, I completely understand that they do whatever they want with the professions they leveled. (unless they got boosted with guild resources, I guess)
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Re: Selfish Guildmates

Postby djlar » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:19 am

Our guild tanks very rarely get another 4 guildies with them to run heroics, I've been struggling myself, either they already running random LFG with 1 or more pugs, or then don't need DPS much less melee, it seems they just want it "easy".

Then again you see several tanks and healers doing BG's instead of running heroics to get ready to raid, and our guild it's "i346 average or you don't come to raid" attitude.

How am I supposed to gear up if I can't even complete one heroic per night? the most I expect from quest rewards are i333s and can't gain rep not running dungeons either (already quested out all the different reps).

Only option is to spend 20K gold in one piece of gear in the AH or try to level alts so I can get my own mats for crafting some stuff raid worthy.. which is going to take too much time.
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Re: Selfish Guildmates

Postby lythac » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:20 am

mosa wrote:I also have been recently turned down by two guild mates on a transmute, which is a daily cool down, because they, in one case want to play the AH


Are you too selfish to spend your own gold and expecting others to fund your gear?
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Re: Selfish Guildmates

Postby mosa » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:23 am

Njall wrote:I help out people in my guild. If they don't bother to reciprocate, then I don't bother helping them in the future. That's what my friend list is for. These are folks I help and I know that I can often count on to give me some assistance if need be.



Yea... to be fair we don't have a guild policy on this, I assumed people would want to push progression, which now after reading responses is my failure to realize the path the guild wants to push towards.

But yes... I have gone out of my way to be available to enchant/gem for others... I will be keeping a list of those who are unwilling to reciprocate. I won't be a dick about it, but I'm not going to stop what I'm doing to go to them to enchant/gem their gear.
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Re: Selfish Guildmates

Postby mosa » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:28 am

lythac wrote:
mosa wrote:I also have been recently turned down by two guild mates on a transmute, which is a daily cool down, because they, in one case want to play the AH


Are you too selfish to spend your own gold and expecting others to fund your gear?



Reasonable question, I power leveled my professions with my own coin, offer enchanting and jewlcrafting for free to guildies. Tank random heroics so they can get their daily valor points even though that takes me to undesirable dungeons for my own gear.

So short sighted answer... yes, long sighted answer, I'm going to be doing stuff for them in the future, and that sacrifice early on for them is paid off through when I tank stuff for them.

But as I mentioned above.. I'm beginning to think is a failure eon my part in my misalignment in my expectations of my guild mates and where we want our guild to go. I want more sooner, they are content to wait. As I said... a failure on my part.
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Re: Selfish Guildmates

Postby halabar » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:17 am

culhag wrote:
mosa wrote:I also have been recently turned down by two guild mates on a transmute, which is a daily cool down, because they, in one case want to play the AH, and in another are saving the cool down for the Alchemy mount which, while cool, does not enhance our raid performance.

Sorry but I'll side with the alchemists on this one.
Unless it's guild policy that they should give out their stuff, I completely understand that they do whatever they want with the professions they leveled. (unless they got boosted with guild resources, I guess)


Yep, unless your guild fed that alchemist mats to level, and considering that the cooldowns are shared, then, yeah, pretty bad to expect the alchemist to serve you, unless you are tipping well.

For the grouping, that's another story. While on one hand if people are expecting to get carried just to get gear, that's one thing, but there's something to be said for running guild teams to get ready for raiding. Allthough for guild tanks and healers, if you want your guild members geared, you might have to suck it up and run instances with those dps, since they sit in 45min waits otherwise.
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Re: Selfish Guildmates

Postby Njall » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:21 am

halabar wrote:
For the grouping, that's another story. While on one hand if people are expecting to get carried just to get gear, that's one thing, but there's something to be said for running guild teams to get ready for raiding. Allthough for guild tanks and healers, if you want your guild members geared, you might have to suck it up and run instances with those dps, since they sit in 45min waits otherwise.



I had a 'discussion' with one of our dps. He spent much of the last few days griping about how long he had to queue for a heroic. I pointed out that there were a fair number of folks who were not quite geared for it and that I'd be happy to tank heroics as soon as I was geared. Would he be willing to help with a normal random? No. Later, we find out he's in a regular Grim Batol and looking for more DPS because they had to kick someone. And it is considered 'odd' that I am unwilling to bail out on my own run to join his.

Also, this the guy who pushed-pushed-pushed on heroic mode and achievement kills in ICC but then suddenly was 'too busy' when he had his drake. Quite a few of us are still a few heroics and achievements short. I don't know if we'll be able to get back there or not. Hell, I may just organize a run myself this weekend.
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Re: Selfish Guildmates

Postby halabar » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:25 am

Njall wrote:
halabar wrote:
For the grouping, that's another story. While on one hand if people are expecting to get carried just to get gear, that's one thing, but there's something to be said for running guild teams to get ready for raiding. Allthough for guild tanks and healers, if you want your guild members geared, you might have to suck it up and run instances with those dps, since they sit in 45min waits otherwise.



I had a 'discussion' with one of our dps. He spent much of the last few days griping about how long he had to queue for a heroic. I pointed out that there were a fair number of folks who were not quite geared for it and that I'd be happy to tank heroics as soon as I was geared. Would he be willing to help with a normal random? No. Later, we find out he's in a regular Grim Batol and looking for more DPS because they had to kick someone. And it is considered 'odd' that I am unwilling to bail out on my own run to join his.

Also, this the guy who pushed-pushed-pushed on heroic mode and achievement kills in ICC but then suddenly was 'too busy' when he had his drake. Quite a few of us are still a few heroics and achievements short. I don't know if we'll be able to get back there or not. Hell, I may just organize a run myself this weekend.


There's the rub, isn't it.. :wink: It goes both ways.

Don't know how many people I've tanked for to gear up only to have them bail or try to take over once they were geared.
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