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Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Eltiana » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:19 am

Barathorn wrote:I find it a little sad that one of our most recognisable tanking skills/trademarks is no longer particuarly viable or usable as part of a standard rotation [consecration]. Other than that its business as usual I guess.

I agree with this. Consecrate used to be THE spell Pally tanks were known for above all else, and now I at least hardly use it. Inquisition, while powerful at times, I think is just outright boring. As for Seal of Truth, eh, The Seal system has always felt a little lackluster to me, but I've grown used to it, and I don't foresee a major overhall of it for a while now. Personally I'd like to see Consecrate become the 'AoE finisher' using holy power, and just drop Inquisition.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby valura » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:39 am

After discussing the use of WoG vs Inq with my GM, who is the default healer (Holydin) for our dungeoning group, we decided I can use Inq unless he tells me otherwise in vent.

We tested this out, and it worked like a charm, since my survival isn't related in any way to me using WoG, and the survival of the high dps is related to my use in Inq. Using AS-CS-S-CS-S-CS-S-Inq-Cons-AS-CS makes single targets cling to me like they're superglued to me... same thing for groups (with Hammer instead of CS, duh).

Basically, after 10 seconds into the fight, only targeted nuking on an add that is only held in position by the buffed up Consecrate, can pull it off. Luckily, my guildies learn pretty fast, as my healer let's them die if they do that :P

Bonus is, that I keep on ending up number 1 on damage dealt, although average dps output is still crappy...
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Brute » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:46 am

I've thought seriously about respeccing to trick out WoG, since yeah, it is a very nice heal and those healers always seem to be going OOM.

Threat is also an issue, though probably moreso because people aren't used to having to FF. This expansion is going to be tricky. I've already been reforging all my gear to de-prioritize threat stats and go for more Mastery.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby twinkfist » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:21 am

haven't tanked yet myself and only did stonecore as ret...inquisition isn't too bad...but it feels like i'm losing flow when i'm on a roll. i my clcinfo icon for inquisition set to go off when it gets to 6 seconds so i can refresh...and then i pop it again.

i can see if its getting to trash, when i-levels go up...and trash is dieing fast that inq will not be used till a boss.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby maurok » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:55 pm

I'm currently with 2 builds, only with the threat talents, and I was playing with another one speccing sub-holy for the +60% crit on WoG, 2/2 GbtL and eternal glory(on target with less than 35% HP), also glyphed seal of insight and WoG on this spec (only for "scientific purposes" =] )

I started the fight with Seal of truth, popped AW and did use 2~3 ShoR... after that I have a decent threat lead and I change to Seal of Insight and start spamming WoG whenever I can, I also use holy radiance frequently.

I must say that I'm VERY impressed with the amount of healing I was able to pull in some bosses, I frequently heal more that 30~40% of the healer heals. and in some "not so intensive damage" fights, I did some nice stunts, like killing stonecores 2nd boss (the dragon that drop spikes) after the healer died on a crystal storm, the boss had still 1.5M health and I healed through using my CDs, without even using LoH

of course my threat is seriously lower, but I had some non-retard dpsers with me, they used theirs threat reducing CDs and we were fine. the upside was much smoother runs, with much less wipes (I change to the threat heavy build on trash though)
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Rojhaz » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:15 pm

claisa wrote:Am thinking of making a macro for divine plea/inquisition onto one button for pulling. A giant shield slam at the beginning doesn't seem as useful as 30 seconds of more threat on everything, to go next to the emergency divine plea/cancel aura/WoG button.

Maybe I haven't paid enough attention but I thought Inquisition for prot only lasted 4 sec per charge for a max of 12 seconds?

From the sounds of it, the beta rotation of Hammer-Filler-Inq-Repeat isn't the proper way to use Inquisition? That's what I've been using, with prioritizing Judgement on the burn target.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Sabindeus » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:33 pm

Rojhaz wrote:
claisa wrote:Am thinking of making a macro for divine plea/inquisition onto one button for pulling. A giant shield slam at the beginning doesn't seem as useful as 30 seconds of more threat on everything, to go next to the emergency divine plea/cancel aura/WoG button.

Maybe I haven't paid enough attention but I thought Inquisition for prot only lasted 4 sec per charge for a max of 12 seconds?


Correct, I think the person you quoted has been playing Ret too much.

From the sounds of it, the beta rotation of Hammer-Filler-Inq-Repeat isn't the proper way to use Inquisition? That's what I've been using, with prioritizing Judgement on the burn target.


Now that Hammer has a 3s cooldown? Definitely not.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Amirya » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:52 pm

tenxion wrote:As a prot paladin, I just don't think we should be using WoG. Why use it when you have a healer with you. I would only use WoG in "oh shit" situation.

In one sense, I feel the same way. I'm already tanking trash, big ugly crotches, and dragons breathing shit on me. Now you want me to do competitive dps and heal too? Why would I need dps or healers with me if I can do it alllll by myself.

However, as Lev has correctly pointed out, your job as a tank is to do the most threat possible, while taking the least damage you can, and maximizing your survivability. In this regard, WoG does a nice job. Is it spectacular? Not really. But it can do the job, even if you have only one holy power. It's like saying, "I'm not going to use HR/DP/GAnK/LoH/healing potion/bandages because I have a healer with me."

Ok, the bandages might be tricky, but the premise remains. Use your WoG. Especially if the healer is struggling, or your dps are so retarded the healer is hoping you're smart enough to survive.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby d503 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:33 pm

I'm not sure if you guys are just not using the right abilities with Inquisition, but making sure you priorities the right abilities and use the right 3s rotation ability (HotR) is the key to getting effectiveness out of it.

This parse of Halfus shows how OP it is: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-5 ... 181&e=9514

Basically, as the whelps are being engaged, I DP'd 3 HoPo, popped Inq and went to down using the HotR -> AS -> HotR -> HW -> HotR -> Inq rotation.

I was getting avg 9400 regular hits from the nova on all mobs in the area, and 13.1k avg crits on it! My DPS went up to 40k from the 11k I was doing normally.

I can't help but think that Inquisition was a huge part of that...Consecration, on the other hand, is now worthless and a waste of 2 talent points. There's really no reason to use it...it hits for very little, costs lots of mana, and has a horrendous cooldown.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby tenxion » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:51 pm

Whao I think some of you guys taken the things I've said way out of proportion. While I appreciate the constitutive criticism, I don't really like the sarcasm. My point was that you shouldn't use WoG b/c your healer should have your back. If the healer is struggling, by all means, use WoG. I just feel that healers shouldn't need the help. I can understand that you want to help the healer out but I still feel that Inquisition is the finisher to use. My reason for Inquisition, It makes me feel secure. I guess I just trust my healer to keep my hp up to not use WoG much.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Amirya » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:01 pm

I don't think anyone was being sarcastic.

Well, aside from me about the bandages.

And I don't think anyone is saying don't use Inquisition. But it shouldn't be a, "I won't use it because my healer fails if they go oom healing ME!"

You can see in my sig that I have lotsa alts. 2 are mainspec healers, 1 is offspec healer. If a tank, or a dps, or hell even another healer, can take the time to occasionally do something to help me out with their health, I don't resent them. I appreciate it. It tells me they're not tunnel visioned on whatever the fuck they're doing, and are paying at least minimal attention to their health.

Nothing enrages the healer in me more than, "why didn't I get heals?" Especially when the healer WAS healing.

I always want to say, "where the fuck are your bandages?"

If you're fine and comfortable with your healer(s) healing you to the point that you forget you have WoG, that's fine. But please please please don't foster the attitude of "if I die, it's the healer's fault."

Sometimes, it just isn't.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Levantine » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:44 am

Ugh, and there Ami goes saying something completely unexpected and redeeming my opinion of her. Can't you just let me be a grump troll, Ami? WHY CAN'T YOU LET ME DO THAT?!
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Barathorn » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:39 am

It is because deep down we all know you are the cute fluffy Australian owl from Legend of the Guardians Levantine :).

Cricket.

Crikey.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Levantine » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:04 am

FOUR.


...

Oh fuck, that's the wrong sport, isn't it?
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Worldie » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:08 am

The main deal is, WoG and Inquisition have two opposite situational roles.

WoG is supposed to be used when your threat is fine, there's no DPS problems, but there's lot of shit going on and healers are spamming their heals. Running OOM is a big problem in Cataclysm world, helping healing is very important. I find myself using Holy Radiance, Word of Glory, Seal of Insight, Gift of the Naaru and hell, even Flash of Light constantly in heroic and raid (with SoI you have practically limitless mana).

On the other hand, if you are wiping to enrage timer or due to lack of DPS... that's where Inquisition, Consecration, Shor and Seal of Truth come to play.

So yea, you have tools for all situations. Awesome isn't it? What, we need to choose what skill to use time by time? MADNESS
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