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Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby theckhd » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:49 pm

d503 wrote:I did cast Consecration: Consecration 90124

Check the parse...


d503 wrote:Consecration, on the other hand, is now worthless and a waste of 2 talent points. There's really no reason to use it...it hits for very little, costs lots of mana, and has a horrendous cooldown.


You do, I hope, see the inherent disconnect in the combination of those two statements?

I'll agree with you that it's probably not worth wasting talent points on. But it's still a useful tool in our arsenal. It's perhaps more difficult to use than simply spamming it on cooldown ala Wrath. The fact that there are very obvious cases where utilizing that tool makes sense, cases which you have in fact personally used that tool, undermines a statement such as "There's really no reason to use it."

In other words, using Consecration has moved from "drop it like it's hot" to "only use wisely," like you did in your parse.

<edit> I see your point, but Hammer will necessarily trump Consecration in total damage done to the whelps - it's got a much shorter cooldown, so you're going to get many many more casts of it off. But we've never used sustained, long-term damage to choose priority queues in the first place. Damage per cast time is normally what counts, and Consecration's DPCT is still phenomenal on big packs - twice that of HotR.

In any event, sustained damage is no longer Consecration's purpose - the tool has changed since Wrath. It's now a 10-second aoe Aggro boost for solidifying aggro on a large number of mobs. You have to use it intelligently to make it worth it, but like I said, it basically lets you fit 2 Hammers worth of damage into 1 GCD, which makes it worth casting in a number of scenarios.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:03 pm

d503 wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:THECK'D

Oooo I like that.


I'm not sure how I got Theck'd, considering that I casted Consecration when I pulled the whelps.

It did a total of 90k in the time it was down, whereas hammernova did a total of 2,126,421 while the whelps were out (or 880k if you look at Damage Taken by whelps instead of that time period that I isolated)...

I'm not trying to be controversial or duplicitous here, so I'm not sure why I'm getting a hostile attitude about it, but the parse shows the damage disparity...I'm curious what your take is, Theck.

I also simply stated my opinion of Consecrate as a spell, and Hallowed Ground as a talent...by no means was my statement an instruction to "remove it from people's bars," or stop using it...


doesn't matter what was actually happening, I was just amusing myself :P

Theck has a tendency to fly off the handle and spew forth gobs of information when he thinks people are spreading misinformation, and that's what I having fun with. :P
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Amirya » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:37 pm

Njall wrote:Indeed. And a paladin should always know when to practice restraint.

:wink:
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby d503 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:45 pm

theckhd wrote:
d503 wrote:I did cast Consecration: Consecration 90124

Check the parse...


d503 wrote:Consecration, on the other hand, is now worthless and a waste of 2 talent points. There's really no reason to use it...it hits for very little, costs lots of mana, and has a horrendous cooldown.


You do, I hope, see the inherent disconnect in the combination of those two statements?

I'll agree with you that it's probably not worth wasting talent points on. But it's still a useful tool in our arsenal. It's perhaps more difficult to use than simply spamming it on cooldown ala Wrath. The fact that there are very obvious cases where utilizing that tool makes sense, cases which you have in fact personally used that tool, undermines a statement such as "There's really no reason to use it."

In other words, using Consecration has moved from "drop it like it's hot" to "only use wisely," like you did in your parse.

<edit> I see your point, but Hammer will necessarily trump Consecration in total damage done to the whelps - it's got a much shorter cooldown, so you're going to get many many more casts of it off. But we've never used sustained, long-term damage to choose priority queues in the first place. Damage per cast time is normally what counts, and Consecration's DPCT is still phenomenal on big packs - twice that of HotR.

In any event, sustained damage is no longer Consecration's purpose - the tool has changed since Wrath. It's now a 10-second aoe Aggro boost for solidifying aggro on a large number of mobs. You have to use it intelligently to make it worth it, but like I said, it basically lets you fit 2 Hammers worth of damage into 1 GCD, which makes it worth casting in a number of scenarios.


I should have qualified my statement better by saying, "Consecration is not as important in the face of the massive aoe snap threat, practicality, and overall DPS increase brought by HotR on cooldown."

Forums + Hyperbole = Further Hyperbole and ridicule :(
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby theckhd » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:33 pm

d503 wrote:Forums + Hyperbole = Further Hyperbole and ridicule :(


Sorry, I didn't mean for it to come off as hostile as it did. I've been seeing a lot of "this spell sucks now, take it off of your bars" posts lately, and it was starting to irritate me. I like the fact that using Consecration well ends up taking some thought and planning. Having to consider things like available mana and upcoming events ("can I blow this now, or will I need it more in 10-15 seconds?") makes for more interesting tanking than when your only criterion is "is it off of cooldown?"
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby d503 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:09 pm

theckhd wrote:
d503 wrote:Forums + Hyperbole = Further Hyperbole and ridicule :(


Sorry, I didn't mean for it to come off as hostile as it did. I've been seeing a lot of "this spell sucks now, take it off of your bars" posts lately, and it was starting to irritate me. I like the fact that using Consecration well ends up taking some thought and planning. Having to consider things like available mana and upcoming events ("can I blow this now, or will I need it more in 10-15 seconds?") makes for more interesting tanking than when your only criterion is "is it off of cooldown?"


Agreed. By no means am I a "sky-is-falling" Feanarion type (no offense ;P)...for the record, Cons is still on my bars, just as a click, since I use it infrequently...to it's credit, it was replaced by GanK.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby degre » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:46 am

twinkfist wrote:finally tanked instead of ret in an instance. did reg vortex pinnacle...like 4 times in a row trying to get that stupid tanking axe...anyway...i found myself using all of the abilities...inquisition not so much except before trash or just before a boss to get that initial burst.

but using all the healing capabilities...cooldowns..everything...it was actually fun watching everyone. now i actually have to get together some tanking gear that isn't all green...and then level my shaman for my enchants and then my other pally for gems and i am good to go.

Go to TH for the Mace of the Gullet. Requires maybe an hour and a half of questing since you take the breadcrumb in Orgri, you need to follow the quest for a while, but if you like questing at least is a guaranteed item and it's the best you can get without farming istances.


Back on the topic, I really don't see the discussion, we're finally having some sort of choice to make when dealing with different inc, we have abilites that are very situational, why are we complaining that are not always useful, when we could just enjoy using it when are required?

And about WoG, saying that we should not use it because our healer should be dealing with our health is missing the point, we have a tool so that we can use it, well, let's use it if required, but if you prefer to hold onto your ideas and wipe because your healer has run out of mana, well, your choice.
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