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Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

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Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Lieris » Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:37 pm

Please correct me if I am wrong but having got to 85 today and done a couple of heroics (really great so far, it's nice to be LOS pulling and using CC again) these spells feel kinda crappy.

Inquisition: In multi mob situations I want to be using WOG to take pressure off the healer (with Eternal Glory this is very efficient) or I want to be using shield slam on the skull target. I do not need the extra AOE threat, I have better uses of holy power. It's also incredibly dull.

Seal of Truth: The threat this puts out is a joke. Were it not for the expertise glyph I'd use Seal of Insight instead.

Consecration: I use this so irregularly it could be removed from the game and I wouldn't notice. It ticks for very little and it's a total mana pig even with 1/2 hallowed ground. This spell was great in TBC, where it single handedly carried the spec. We have better options now on lower cooldowns that are effective at snapping threat (something consecration was never good at) so I am at a loss as to where this fits in. The only time I've used it where it felt useful is on the nightmare spiders in heroic DM.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Aubade » Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:14 pm

Lieris wrote:Consecration: I use this so irregularly it could be removed from the game and I wouldn't notice. It ticks for very little and it's a total mana pig even with 1/2 hallowed ground. This spell was great in TBC, where it single handedly carried the spec. We have better options now on lower cooldowns that are effective at snapping threat (something consecration was never good at) so I am at a loss as to where this fits in. The only time I've used it where it felt useful is on the nightmare spiders in heroic DM.


I use consecration quite a bit. While yes it's a mana hog it is a nice little added AoE threat. I tend to use it on anything with 3 or more mobs. The way I do it is as follows, normal rotation -> Drop Holy power when I get to 3, use consecrate, use Divine plea, use 3 holy power -> continue rotation.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby theckhd » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:04 am

Lieris wrote:Please correct me if I am wrong but having got to 85 today and done a couple of heroics (really great so far, it's nice to be LOS pulling and using CC again) these spells feel kinda crappy.

Inquisition: In multi mob situations I want to be using WOG to take pressure off the healer (with Eternal Glory this is very efficient) or I want to be using shield slam on the skull target. I do not need the extra AOE threat, I have better uses of holy power. It's also incredibly dull.

Seal of Truth: The threat this puts out is a joke. Were it not for the expertise glyph I'd use Seal of Insight instead.

Consecration: I use this so irregularly it could be removed from the game and I wouldn't notice. It ticks for very little and it's a total mana pig even with 1/2 hallowed ground. This spell was great in TBC, where it single handedly carried the spec. We have better options now on lower cooldowns that are effective at snapping threat (something consecration was never good at) so I am at a loss as to where this fits in. The only time I've used it where it felt useful is on the nightmare spiders in heroic DM.


If you don't need extra AoE threat, then Inquisition will certainly seem lackluster. On the other hand, it boosts your DPS pretty noticeably on those pulls as well. It's a little situational, and it's definitely possible to tank without it, but I've managed to find uses for it anyway.

Seal of Truth accounts for 2.5k-3k DPS out of about 16k or so, even without factoring in the glyph. So you're looking at about 15-20% of your total damage output. I'd hardly call that a joke.

I use Consecration on cooldown on AoE pulls, with 0/2 Hallowed Ground. It's a mana hog, but it's a pretty noticeable chunk of your AoE threat potential. Especially when paired with Inquisition.

If there's any spell I'm disappointed with so far, it's Holy Wrath. It scales so incredibly badly, so its damage pales in comparison to anything else we can cast. At the same time, it's incredibly mana-intensive, making it weak damage per mana. For the most part I just use it for the stun anymore, and it's the first thing I drop from the rotation when mana is a problem.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Thornir » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:50 pm

theckhd wrote:
Lieris wrote:If there's any spell I'm disappointed with so far, it's Holy Wrath. It scales so incredibly badly, so its damage pales in comparison to anything else we can cast. At the same time, it's incredibly mana-intensive, making it weak damage per mana. For the most part I just use it for the stun anymore, and it's the first thing I drop from the rotation when mana is a problem.


It's also a CC-breaker, so I leave it out of most of my rotations anyway.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Levantine » Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:41 pm

It's only a CC breaker if you're bad enough to be tanking the rest of the group that close to any CC'd mobs.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby rodos » Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:46 pm

It feels to me that Ret, and by the sounds of it Prot too, need a good HoPo AoE move. DS on HoPo was broken, because Ret has no AoE power generator. Now Prot has not much to use HoPo on in AoE, and Ret just don't even accumulate any.

I think Holy Wrath is a good candidate as a finisher. It was always a "cool" ability, especially with the fun graphic. It deserves to be more than just a filler, and sometimes a stun. The meteor mechanic can make it interesting too. If it's tuned lower on single target than TV or ShotR, but scales a bit per target, then there's an "interesting" decision about which button to press depending on number of enemies, cc etc.

Inquisition just needs to go away I think. It was put there to make Ret a bit more complicated, like a Rogue keeping up SnD. The trouble is that a rogue isn't already weaving fillers between the CP generator. There's also a bit more leeway for rogues to vary the rotation, with 5 CP to our 3. Then there's the fun that comes with the delayed HoPo display. Eternal Glory procs can take up to 1s to refund the points. Divine Purpose too. Then HoL has a tendency to proc just as you let off a 1-2 point Inq (mob nearly dead) and you waste the proc. Bah.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby inthedrops » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:09 pm

Only issue with inquisition is needing holy power for it. Otherwise, it's very noticeable and useful when it's up. And with three holy power stacks it's up for a REALLY long time.

I agree about WoG. I find that I use it more than ShoR in cases where things are scary. I use it 50% of the time on me, and 50% of the time on someone else.

Threat seems "ok" considering I don't gem, gear, or reforge for it. I have 20 expertise and 2.17% hit and I'm completing some 25 man raid bosses just fine threat wise. I do notice a LOT of parries but that's only been an issue on tank swap fights like the new Tol Barad guy.

I don't agree at all about Seal of Truth. It's best to think of it as a constant source of threat than as a damage doing ability. Tabbing through mobs getting some stacks up, etc. It does it's job very well.

Consecration I use very little. To be completely honest, I tend to use it when I accidentally mess up my rotation or was forced to mess it up for whatever reasons. I use it as a filler.

Holy wrath I really like. It's my instant grab ability. Considering you don't have to target anything, and you run into the occasional issues of mobs being behind you while repositioning, it's a great tool. I use it on cooldown.

I tend to only use inquisition on large aoe pulls and only as a damage increase. Not really needed for threat. Plus, when threat is most needed (on the pull) I prefer to spend my holy power on WoG or ShoR to get Holy Shield going before engaging (some of these 25 man bosses wreck me quick and 10% can make a big difference)

Those are my thoughts.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Torquemada » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:31 pm

theckhd wrote:If there's any spell I'm disappointed with so far, it's Holy Wrath. It scales so incredibly badly, so its damage pales in comparison to anything else we can cast. At the same time, it's incredibly mana-intensive, making it weak damage per mana. For the most part I just use it for the stun anymore, and it's the first thing I drop from the rotation when mana is a problem.


I'm finding it great for snap aggro in the event that HotR is on cooldown, especially with Inquisition up. I've run through Stonecore a few times now and picking up all the little adds is a ton easier with it. I've been trying to save Consecration for when I have to use it, as I'm not specced for it, though I'm getting close to giving up PoJ for it to get Hallowed Ground, which is something I never though I'd say.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Fulgur » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:15 am

Torquemada wrote:I'm getting close to giving up PoJ for it to get Hallowed Ground, which is something I never though I'd say.


I did that just today, it's worked out better than I thought it would. When I get more block + dodge, I'll swap back again. But for now, in heroics, I find that not being afraid (or able) to cast consecration is worth the loss in foot speed. Especially since I do every Heroic via the LFD tool, so I probably have to deal w/ more Oh Shit moments than those who run guild-only.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby claisa » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:11 am

consecration got downgrounded on my key bindings to something completely out of the way for most of yesterday, it really didn't feel noticebly missing but then again its not talented. Good idea swapping PoJ for hallowed grounds may try it out.

Certain bosses it seems i am spending most of my time kiting and stunning with holy wraith so PoJ maybe more useful for adding precious distance to the million adds trying to pound me. So will have to see if i notice its missing. Then again since the cheap boot enchant seems to be 30 stamina with movement speed perhaps that will be enough.

Am thinking of making a macro for divine plea/inquisition onto one button for pulling. A giant shield slam at the beginning doesn't seem as useful as 30 seconds of more threat on everything, to go next to the emergency divine plea/cancel aura/WoG button.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby PsiVen » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:28 am

I find Consecration fairly annoying to use due to its mana cost with 1/2 Hallowed Ground, since in multi-target Judgement is low priority and HotR has a high mana cost. It feels like more of a threat cooldown like AW than an ability we use all the time, and AW is generally more useful. With 2/2 I could imagine using it more often, I suppose, but it seems lackluster still.

I hate Inquisition. I avoid using it unless there are 4-5 targets at least that I am hitting, and even then usually only keep it up during Consecration. The duration is irritatingly short and frankly my favorite part of our new rotation is seeing big crits from ShoR.

I tank a lot with Seal of Insight. The constant parry/dodge gets annoying, but things go more smoothly when I drop ~8% of my DPS for a ton of healing. Just like in Beta, the advantages are quite clear.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby tenxion » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:27 am

I use Inquisition the most as my finisher. Before a boss pull I like to use DP+Inquisition+AW. I feel that the extra threat / damage always helps.I do miss the old Consecration but with the change to HotR, I don't fell that bitter. As a prot paladin, I just don't think we should be using WoG. Why use it when you have a healer with you. I would only use WoG in "oh shit" situation.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Levantine » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:33 am

tenxion wrote:Why use it when you have a healer with you.

This attitude bothers me. It's almost as if the people saying it are completely oblivious to the changes that have been made to healer mana regeneration and the basic premises of being a tank. Healers are currently stretched for mana and using WoG is a nontrivial amount of healing that absolutely takes some of the pressure off of them. Why would you not make your healers life easier? It's your job to make it as easy as possible for the healer to keep you alive, WoG is one of the tools in your arsenal.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Barathorn » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:50 am

I find it a little sad that one of our most recognisable tanking skills/trademarks is no longer particuarly viable or usable as part of a standard rotation [consecration]. Other than that its business as usual I guess.
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Re: Inquisition, Seal of Truth and Consecration

Postby Mannstein » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:51 am

Levantine wrote: It's your job to make it as easy as possible for the healer to keep you alive, WoG is one of the tools in your arsenal.


QFT...
After 3minutes on the boss, with 3 times the 1º DPS agro.. WoG is your friend.
It heals for less then 10% your life? So what? It is 10% less the healer has to heal.
If you have some issues with losing 30k shield crit on the boss, (tanking DPS aka big number's sindrome), make a pact with yourself, only use the Shield when the judgment proc is up, 50% of the time WoG is better then nothing.
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