Cataclysm levelling tips?

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Re: Cataclysm levelling tips?

Postby Discus » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:13 pm

Personally, I am a big fan of this, because I think you should play games as the designers intended.


As a natural rebel I get satisfaction from breaking the rules. However, I think you can still play a game as the designers intended but have more options. I'm not a fan of everyone doing the same quest that leads to the next hub in a huge race. Dithery old men like me could spend ages levelling in a zone because they like the trees there. There was something for everyone in some corner of some wood. It increasingly feels like I’m being corralled into a particular path and the WoW mentality both in and out of dungeons is “gogogo”. Go where? What’s the rush? Why not stand, stare and enjoy more of this game you are playing for fun? Still this is largely academic, WoW built it’s reputation on the profound depth, complexity, difficulty and brilliant imagination of the Vanilla designers. It could now produce an entire expansion where you stand in one spot with 8 million other players and click a rock 1000 000 times to level and as long as their was an opportunity to be realm first rock clicker, millions of people would play.
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Re: Cataclysm levelling tips?

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:54 pm

Discus wrote: It increasingly feels like I’m being corralled into a particular path and the WoW mentality both in and out of dungeons is “gogogo”. Go where? What’s the rush? Why not stand, stare and enjoy more of this game you are playing for fun?

I don't think your wanting to stop and smell the roses has anything to do with linearity.

Still this is largely academic, WoW built it’s reputation on the profound depth, complexity, difficulty and brilliant imagination of the Vanilla designers. It could now produce an entire expansion where you stand in one spot with 8 million other players and click a rock 1000 000 times to level and as long as their was an opportunity to be realm first rock clicker, millions of people would play.


I honestly don't think the designers were doing a better job in vanilla than they are now. A lot of what I see when I look back at original WoW is just problems. Sure, I had fun, and I have some nostalgia for those days. But there was a lot of frustration and angst that went with it that I just don't have now.
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Re: Cataclysm levelling tips?

Postby Njall » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:55 pm

Discus wrote:
Personally, I am a big fan of this, because I think you should play games as the designers intended.


As a natural rebel I get satisfaction from breaking the rules. However, I think you can still play a game as the designers intended but have more options. I'm not a fan of everyone doing the same quest that leads to the next hub in a huge race. Dithery old men like me could spend ages levelling in a zone because they like the trees there. There was something for everyone in some corner of some wood. It increasingly feels like I’m being corralled into a particular path and the WoW mentality both in and out of dungeons is “gogogo”. Go where? What’s the rush? Why not stand, stare and enjoy more of this game you are playing for fun? Still this is largely academic, WoW built it’s reputation on the profound depth, complexity, difficulty and brilliant imagination of the Vanilla designers. It could now produce an entire expansion where you stand in one spot with 8 million other players and click a rock 1000 000 times to level and as long as their was an opportunity to be realm first rock clicker, millions of people would play.


TotalHalibut has a simply wonderful rant about the rose-tinted view some players have about Classic. I should try and find a link to it.
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Re: Cataclysm levelling tips?

Postby halabar » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:19 pm

Discus wrote:
I guess this is going to change in later zones as mob damage goes up.


Maybe they nerfed mobs since beta but in level 80 gear as prot spec the level 85 mobs presented no real problem (av gs just 250 ish).

I don't enjoy levelling so wanted to just skip the busy novelty beginner zones. However, Blizzard seem to have nerfed the XP you get for killing much higher level mobs and made the whole game much more linear so you are forced to see all the hard work their designers put in by following qst after qst in the order they decide not you.


I don't think it's just that Blizz wants you to follow a certain order, I think it's more about combating exploits, because they are disruptive to the experience for the rest of the gamers.

There are plenty of ways to level without grinding old content. Heck, there are more options than ever before, especially with XP from professions. I'm 3/4 to 81 from mining and exploration, with no quests at all yet.

But Blizz does want you to see the content too. Hence the "must discover dungeon door" requirement.

But they needed something like this, especially in Icecrown, otherwise pallies especially would have leveled on an endless stream of scourge. (And yes, I was one of the ones that leveled my pally in Wrath in the cave with those iron-dwarf things that spawned endlessly. Leveled 72-78 in that cave..)
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Re: Cataclysm levelling tips?

Postby Braundo » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:03 pm

This isn't actually about levels 80-85, but it is still about Cataclysm leveling.

How much XP does Archaeology give on live? Assuming you have 280% flying, is it enough to make it at least somewhat close to questing XP? Being able to level up Archaeology a good bit on my way to 80 would be a big timesaver.
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Re: Cataclysm levelling tips?

Postby djlar » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:06 pm

I think I saw 11K XP from one dig.. so should be 33K per site.
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Re: Cataclysm levelling tips?

Postby Shathus » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:12 pm

Doing it at 81 was giving about 8k XP (no rested) per dig. So about 24k per site. It's probably (roughly) equivalent to 1 quest. Though I'll have to try again tonight at 83 and see if that still holds true.
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Re: Cataclysm levelling tips?

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:26 pm

Braundo wrote:This isn't actually about levels 80-85, but it is still about Cataclysm leveling.

How much XP does Archaeology give on live? Assuming you have 280% flying, is it enough to make it at least somewhat close to questing XP? Being able to level up Archaeology a good bit on my way to 80 would be a big timesaver.


XP per unit time with Archaelogy is no where near as high as questing.
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Re: Cataclysm levelling tips?

Postby rodos » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:42 pm

Braundo wrote:This isn't actually about levels 80-85, but it is still about Cataclysm leveling.

How much XP does Archaeology give on live? Assuming you have 280% flying, is it enough to make it at least somewhat close to questing XP? Being able to level up Archaeology a good bit on my way to 80 would be a big timesaver.

The first few loots at 80 were giving me 50k+ (rested?), but I think it's dropped now that I'm 81, or possibly because my archaeology skill has gone up. Given that the digsites are often far apart, I'd say it's never going to be very good XP/hr.
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Re: Cataclysm levelling tips?

Postby Amirya » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:54 pm

Discus wrote:It could now produce an entire expansion where you stand in one spot with 8 million other players and click a rock 1000 000 times to level and as long as their was an opportunity to be realm first rock clicker, millions of people would play.

Sadly, I can see this.

It was like when people were trying to be realm first azeroth flier on my server, and Horde came in and kept spam killing the flight trainer in SW, and everyone was standing on top of her, unflagged, spamming AoE like that would help.

I was vastly amused by that.
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Re: Cataclysm levelling tips?

Postby econ21 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:50 am

Just edited the first post with a few observations about zone progression in Cataclysm. Compared to BC or Wotlk, it is a lot more linear - there is choice at L80-81, but thereafter, I think going in the progression Blizzard intended makes sense. They seem to have done a really good job of pacing the levelling and questing so that you are about the right level for the next zone if you just do the bundle of faction related "main story" quests. You don't have to grind XP nor do you quickly outlevel the zone; it is just right. I was very impressed by the timing of it all - after L81, whenever I levelled it seemed to be very close to the epic conclusion of the zone I was in, cinematics and all. Linearity does allow better story telling and Blizzard have used it with skill.
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Re: Cataclysm levelling tips?

Postby halabar » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:24 am

econ21 wrote:Just edited the first post with a few observations about zone progression in Cataclysm. Compared to BC or Wotlk, it is a lot more linear - there is choice at L80-81, but thereafter, I think going in the progression Blizzard intended makes sense. They seem to have done a really good job of pacing the levelling and questing so that you are about the right level for the next zone if you just do the bundle of faction related "main story" quests. You don't have to grind XP nor do you quickly outlevel the zone; it is just right. I was very impressed by the timing of it all - after L81, whenever I levelled it seemed to be very close to the epic conclusion of the zone I was in, cinematics and all. Linearity does allow better story telling and Blizzard have used it with skill.


Yeah, having less dead-end quests is helpful. I think there's only one side-story in Deepholm, and it appears the same is true for Uldum. Having the quests all part of the larger story actually gets me reading the text more, rather than just clicking through for the "here's your 10 gnome snouts gimme XP and the green gear so I can vendor it" that we are used to.

How is TH? I can see the end zone having more room for different directions.
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Re: Cataclysm levelling tips?

Postby Shathus » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:29 am

halabar wrote:
How is TH? I can see the end zone having more room for different directions.


I haven't gotten too far into TH but the story seems to be a little more varied there. Though I was finishing up getting to 85 late at night in there and started more blindly clicking through the quest text to finish up, so I could be wrong. :oops:

I did notice while flying around mining in the zone, that I could pick up quests as various locations all around the zone instead finding nothing unless I was on the "main chain".
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Re: Cataclysm levelling tips?

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:00 am

I did the entire zone as one long series of quest chains. Each one sends you right to the next when you're done; they're interlinked but distinct, not great big single story chains like Deepholm and Uldum.
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Re: Cataclysm levelling tips?

Postby econ21 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:26 pm

I noticed in Deepholm, Uldun and TH that Blizzard seemed to have adoped the mid-game "quest hub" approach that Bioware has been using in its RPGs from Baldur's Gate 2 onwards (NWN Chapter 1; KOTOR 1 & 2; Mass Effect; Dragon Age). In each of the three zones, you make contact with the main faction and they send you off to deal with about 3 different faction members, who each have their own quests but who you can approach in any order you like. When you are done with all three, the story advances and you come to a conclusion. It's a little formulaic, but it is one way of trying to combine the virtues of linearity (story) and non-linearity (freedom).
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