I put my angry pants on

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I put my angry pants on

Postby Buttercupcake » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:54 am

Okay, so I know heroics are not exactly srs business but these days they're kind of useful for quick gold/badge grinding, especially as a tank. Mostly I just grind badges for gems. I've always loved doing it on my pally because I can really effectively power tank it - I run in, grab stuff, it sticks to me, I keep moving and don't stop until the healer's mana bar looks low. A typical instance takes me 10 minutes, 15 max -- so I'm not exactly a slow tank.

Anyway I'd been reading some stuff the other day about how rare tanks are (gripes from DPS, of course) and how much they hated waiting for a tank. The response from the tanks was that it was just a horrible job. Because I'd mostly just been raiding on my pally, the last time I needed to go run heroics for gear/badges etc was when they were really serious business and my power runs recently were so quick and painless I'd never noticed the potential for horrible before.

BUT TODAY I DID.

DPS - overzealous, rude DPS - enrage me. I had a group today where I had to take 10 seconds to respec from heals -- and they'd started pulling. When I politely requested they let me do the pulling, it was met with a flat "no". It wasn't that huge a deal in so far as we got the instance done and it wasn't like we wiped, what ticked me off was the sheer rudeness of it. When I tank an instance, my job is to get aggro - if that's no longer my role, I don't have a purpose. I am invalidated. So they pull, I have to taunt. Constantly taunting mobs off DPS is annoying. It isn't actually that hard to let me go first -- you really only have to pause for that initial 10 seconds to give me a lead and then I don't stop moving so it DOESN'T TAKE THAT LONG.

In raids, overzealous DPS who go pull the boss first get eaten. There's no question of that. But our DPS and heals have scaled so largely that anybody can tank anything, really. If a DPS went ahead and pulled, you used to be able to stand back and watch them die. There's no punishment for bad behaviour. It's incredibly frustrating.

I know, they're end of expac heroics and it's going to be quite different in Cata. This isn't a "ZOMG FIX THE GAME ITS BROKEN" rant, just venting incoherently.
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Re: I put my angry pants on

Postby edsdame » Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:01 am

That's the situation where I would go on follow, and watch tv or something. If they are pulling, they should do the instance without me making efforts. And yeah, they can kick me, if they want, that's good for me too. :P
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Re: I put my angry pants on

Postby Buttercupcake » Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:08 am

edsdame wrote:That's the situation where I would go on follow, and watch tv or something. If they are pulling, they should do the instance without me making efforts. And yeah, they can kick me, if they want, that's good for me too. :P


Hah!

I try to watch TV when I tank sometimes, but then afterwards I have no idea what happened in the episode. I think I went through an entire season of smallville without actually knowing what went on, doing that.
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Re: I put my angry pants on

Postby edsdame » Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:14 am

I was watching Matrix 2 while leveling my warrior. I wish I hadn't. Its a baaaaaad movie.
Kick-Ass is a good one though. I watched it saturday while leveling.

(Two pcs, two monitors, its so easy that way.)
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Re: I put my angry pants on

Postby Buttercupcake » Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:33 am

edsdame wrote:I was watching Matrix 2 while leveling my warrior. I wish I hadn't. Its a baaaaaad movie.
Kick-Ass is a good one though. I watched it saturday while leveling.

(Two pcs, two monitors, its so easy that way.)


I loved Kick Ass! The Losers was also really fun.

I use my TV as a second monitor and have shows on that, it's just behind my computer monitor so I can watch that way.
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Re: I put my angry pants on

Postby Barathorn » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:07 am

I found people are rude and selfish irrespective of class. That is why I only do heroics with friends and Guildmates. We will happily 4 man an instance rather than invite a random idiot into our group.

WTB challenging heroics from TBC that people had to think about rather than facerolling through after 1 tier of raid content.
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Re: I put my angry pants on

Postby Buttercupcake » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:12 am

Barathorn wrote:I found people are rude and selfish irrespective of class. That is why I only do heroics with friends and Guildmates. We will happily 4 man an instance rather than invite a random idiot into our group.

WTB challenging heroics from TBC that people had to think about rather than facerolling through after 1 tier of raid content.



You're right -- there are rude people regardless of class. The healer was doing some pulling too. And as a healer, I hate HATE tanks who pull before I'm ready (wrong spec, no mana, etc).
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Re: I put my angry pants on

Postby Paxen » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:21 am

If they can handle what they pull, why not just run ahead and grab the next pack while they're finishing up? Then you get ahead and can stay there.
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Re: I put my angry pants on

Postby Buttercupcake » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:00 am

That's what I ended up doing after I got tired of taunting off them. But when we got to a boss I'd pause so we could kill it -- and then the cycle would start again. They'd run ahead - I'd run to catch up, then run ahead but it was like some kind of stupid race - if I paused a second to get threat on the mobs I had then they'd run ahead so really I was just running through aggroing things and getting them peeled off me just as fast. Like I said though, it didn't stop us from completing the instance fast, but it just got frustrating after a while, feeling like my role was completely insignificant.
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Re: I put my angry pants on

Postby benebarba » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:30 am

dude, I hear ya. For various reasons, my endgame had been heroics - and I'd say I'd have to deal with maybe 20% rude/just plain dumb folks. Most groups were silent killing machines where folks let me do my thing, occasionally some would even say stuff.

then 4.0.1 hit. DPS gets buffed through the roof, health pools go up and suddenly it seems like every DPS thinks they are a god now. Though I think part of it is also that some of those folks who used to roll through heroics were raiders who were trying to make a few extra badges. And since cat is around the corner, they just stopped running them. so I stopped too, unless it is a guild run.
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Re: I put my angry pants on

Postby Invisusira » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:15 am

Buttercupcake wrote:DPS pulling

There is a VERY simple solution to this, and it has long been my standing policy:

You pull it, you tank it.

Just sit back and let them deal with whatever's been pulled. After they've died a few times, they'll stop. Reserve taunting for someone ELSE pulling aggro off the annoying DPS.
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Re: I put my angry pants on

Postby Buttercupcake » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:32 am

benebarba wrote:dude, I hear ya. For various reasons, my endgame had been heroics - and I'd say I'd have to deal with maybe 20% rude/just plain dumb folks. Most groups were silent killing machines where folks let me do my thing, occasionally some would even say stuff.

then 4.0.1 hit. DPS gets buffed through the roof, health pools go up and suddenly it seems like every DPS thinks they are a god now. Though I think part of it is also that some of those folks who used to roll through heroics were raiders who were trying to make a few extra badges. And since cat is around the corner, they just stopped running them. so I stopped too, unless it is a guild run.


You may be right about this becoming more prevalent after 4.0.1. I was probably lucky never to have had a really frustrating experience as this until now.
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Re: I put my angry pants on

Postby Buttercupcake » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:35 am

Invisusira wrote:
Buttercupcake wrote:DPS pulling

There is a VERY simple solution to this, and it has long been my standing policy:

You pull it, you tank it.

Just sit back and let them deal with whatever's been pulled. After they've died a few times, they'll stop. Reserve taunting for someone ELSE pulling aggro off the annoying DPS.


It's a good policy. I typically reserve this for DPS who intentionally pull off me (and where it's not actually my low threat that's the problem, because I hate tanks who do bad threat and then claim it's a DPS issue) - but trying that in this instance was pretty much useless. In a raid situation DPS respect the tank's role - if they pull raid mobs, they're pretty much dead. But like benebarba said, since 4.0 (in fact, probably prior to then too) even a mage can easily tank any heroic mob, especially with a skilled healer (who has no problem with healing them.)
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Re: I put my angry pants on

Postby benebarba » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:46 am

Buttercupcake wrote:It's a good policy. I typically reserve this for DPS who intentionally pull off me (and where it's not actually my low threat that's the problem, because I hate tanks who do bad threat and then claim it's a DPS issue) - but trying that in this instance was pretty much useless. In a raid situation DPS respect the tank's role - if they pull raid mobs, they're pretty much dead. But like benebarba said, since 4.0 (in fact, probably prior to then too) even a mage can easily tank any heroic mob, especially with a skilled healer (who has no problem with healing them.)


agreed, I have a strict 'You Pull, You Tank' policy... I learned how to dungeon run from some old school players and raiders.

Problem is, almost any over-geared class can handle trash and even some bosses - and if the healer is willing to heal whoever's bars go down on healbot, then suddenly that policy doesn't work. So usually I just tell the party what my issue is and drop group. Clearly they don't need me, and being forced into being an inefficient DPSer isn't my idea of fun.

so, at least for a while, I've avoided PuG 5 mans unless I have 2-3 guildmates with me. Though the world-event bosses seem to be able to keep folks in check a bit better... nothing like a wipe on a 'EZ holiday boss!' to get folks to remember that fire is bad, interrupts are good, and pulling off the tank is bad. Cataclysm is gonna be ugly for those who don't want to remember basic dungeon etiquette :twisted: (at least till they overgear that too :? )
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Re: I put my angry pants on

Postby Sabindeus » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:55 am

Here's how I do it:

1. Respec and hit RF before I queue
2. Pull everything before anyone can say otherwise
3. Do more dps than the rest of the group combined
4. Everyone wins

But hey guess what, Frustrations Thread is there for a reason.
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