Remove Advertisements

I want my Legendary tanking items!

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: I want my Legendary tanking items!

Postby Amirya » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:12 pm

d503 wrote:
Discus wrote:The morphing weapon seems an answer. Whilst Blizzard are correct that tanks are a minority and always will be, I'm surprised they aren't offering a legendary carrot to try and motivate more people to be tanks?


Do we really want to make loot the motivating factor for people to roll tank classes? No thanks...

This.

I'd rather be a legendary tank figure on my server than see retards with legendary items all over the place.
Fetzie wrote:The Defias Brotherhood is back, and this time they are acting as racketeers in Goldshire. Anybody wishing to dance for money must now pay them protection money or be charged triple the normal amount when repairing.
Amirya
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:59 am

Re: I want my Legendary tanking items!

Postby Adryl » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:20 pm

I don't see the taboo in having a Legendary tank weapon. As far as I'm concerned 4 tank classes can use it. Same as healy. And yet they say there isn't a market for it. As far as I am concerned the Bow really only applied to 1 class (ok War for pull and Rogue for god knows what). The warglavies we're only usable with certain classes (War and Rogue right? Don't have any sort of way to check that at work). I do not want to hear that there aren't enough classes/people for it. There will always need to be at least 2 tanks in a raid. ALWAYS. Where as there is not always a warrior, or a Rogue, or a Hunter.
Image
User avatar
Adryl
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:32 am
Location: Not getting any work done

Re: I want my Legendary tanking items!

Postby Brutalicus » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:29 pm

Well, if tanks are a minority and they want to cater to more specs, then they could just put in an epic tank quest, like Quel'serrar. Sure, it wasn't legendary, but when you saw that awesome green glow you knew you were looking at a tank. Same with Lok'delar/Rhok'delar for hunters. Although if the "epic quest" is a guild effort, than it might as well be orange and cause the same guild drama, I guess. So it would have to be a player/small group effort.

edit: OK, so the green glow wasn't the awesome part. But you know what I meant.
Brutalicus, Garona (Horde) Tankadin
User avatar
Brutalicus
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:29 pm

Re: I want my Legendary tanking items!

Postby d503 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:10 pm

Brutalicus wrote:Well, if tanks are a minority and they want to cater to more specs, then they could just put in an epic tank quest, like Quel'serrar. Sure, it wasn't legendary, but when you saw that awesome green glow you knew you were looking at a tank. Same with Lok'delar/Rhok'delar for hunters. Although if the "epic quest" is a guild effort, than it might as well be orange and cause the same guild drama, I guess. So it would have to be a player/small group effort.

edit: OK, so the green glow wasn't the awesome part. But you know what I meant.


This is the direction I think would be more likely...think like Quel'delar as well.

Also, just think of it from a percentages point of view:

2/10 players in any given 10m are tanks, therefore 20% of the distribution of items.
2-3/25 players in any given 25m are tanks, therefore 8-12% of the distribution of items.
2-3/10 players in any given 10m are healers, therefore 20-30% of the distribution of items.
5-7/25 players in any given 25m are healers, therefore 20-28% of the distribution of items.
5-6/10 players in any given 10m are DPS, and therefore 50-60% of the distribution of items.
15-18/25 players in any given 25m are DPS, and therefore 60-72% of the distribution of items.

Now you can slice and dice those DPS numbers down to Melee and Caster, and also based on Weapon Skill available, but the conclusion you're going to come down to is that there's always gonna be more of a % of DPS and Healers than tanks, and therefore the legendary that you spend lots of development time making unique, adding a quest, and balancing will be applicable to more players than it would if it were made for tanks.

Just my 2c, but I'm looking at it from an objective POV.
User avatar
d503
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:31 pm
Location: Northern California, US

Re: I want my Legendary tanking items!

Postby Adryl » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:28 pm

d503 wrote:
This is the direction I think would be more likely...think like Quel'delar as well.

Also, just think of it from a percentages point of view:

2/10 players in any given 10m are tanks, therefore 20% of the distribution of items.
2-3/25 players in any given 25m are tanks, therefore 8-12% of the distribution of items.
2-3/10 players in any given 10m are healers, therefore 20-30% of the distribution of items.
5-7/25 players in any given 25m are healers, therefore 20-28% of the distribution of items.
5-6/10 players in any given 10m are DPS, and therefore 50-60% of the distribution of items.
15-18/25 players in any given 25m are DPS, and therefore 60-72% of the distribution of items.

Now you can slice and dice those DPS numbers down to Melee and Caster, and also based on Weapon Skill available, but the conclusion you're going to come down to is that there's always gonna be more of a % of DPS and Healers than tanks, and therefore the legendary that you spend lots of development time making unique, adding a quest, and balancing will be applicable to more players than it would if it were made for tanks.

Just my 2c, but I'm looking at it from an objective POV.


I agree on the healer % completely. DPS no. Though you are looking at (lets use 10 man) 5 players, how many of those could use the current legendary weapons available (including atiesh)? Like I mentioned previously, some of the weapons are class specific or weapon skill specific. Out of the 5 How many could use the weapon. Lets say u had Hunter, 2 melee, and 2 spell casters, 2 tanks and 3 healers.

Legendary weapons for Melee dps applies to two people
Spell casters: two people
Ranged: one person and possibly a warrior tank or rogue (highly unlikely imo)
Healer: three (refer to what I said at beginning of post)
Tanks: two.

Yeah this is a randomized raid comp and sometimes it is 4 caster dps and 1 melee but still, I do not see the big issue with a Legendary tank weapon. Yeah in 25 man the dps is largely increased which means more peeps per loot. But look at the Legendary Bow. As far as I'm concerened, it was a little exclusive for hunters. Yeah Rogues and Wars could use it but it is a Hunter weapon through and through.
Image
User avatar
Adryl
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:32 am
Location: Not getting any work done

Re: I want my Legendary tanking items!

Postby d503 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:40 pm

Adryl wrote:I agree on the healer % completely. DPS no. Though you are looking at (lets use 10 man) 5 players, how many of those could use the current legendary weapons available (including atiesh)? Like I mentioned previously, some of the weapons are class specific or weapon skill specific. Out of the 5 How many could use the weapon. Lets say u had Hunter, 2 melee, and 2 spell casters, 2 tanks and 3 healers.

Legendary weapons for Melee dps applies to two people
Spell casters: two people
Ranged: one person and possibly a warrior tank or rogue (highly unlikely imo)
Healer: three (refer to what I said at beginning of post)
Tanks: two.

Yeah this is a randomized raid comp and sometimes it is 4 caster dps and 1 melee but still, I do not see the big issue with a Legendary tank weapon. Yeah in 25 man the dps is largely increased which means more peeps per loot. But look at the Legendary Bow. As far as I'm concerened, it was a little exclusive for hunters. Yeah Rogues and Wars could use it but it is a Hunter weapon through and through.


I agree. It breaks down pretty quickly when you balance for 10m, because just about everyone is equally entitled...I think 25man is likely the better example...or at least it justifies my opinions :twisted:
User avatar
d503
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:31 pm
Location: Northern California, US

Re: I want my Legendary tanking items!

Postby Adryl » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:51 pm

Not going to argue that. 25 man definitely fits with the figures you have given. But with the change to 10/25 lockout and loot tables in Cata, would you change your opinion?
Image
User avatar
Adryl
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:32 am
Location: Not getting any work done

Re: I want my Legendary tanking items!

Postby d503 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:07 pm

Adryl wrote:Not going to argue that. 25 man definitely fits with the figures you have given. But with the change to 10/25 lockout and loot tables in Cata, would you change your opinion?


It certainly complicates the situation, but does not change my opinion. If you base it on 10m b/c 20% of players are tanks in 10 mans, you're leaving out a large segment of players...

It's all projection, though, considering that we don't know how many guilds are going to drop to 10 from 25m raiding.

I still stand firm as the 25man numbers being the ones they should balance against.
User avatar
d503
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:31 pm
Location: Northern California, US

Re: I want my Legendary tanking items!

Postby masterpoobaa » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:41 pm

Tanks ain't getting jack-squat.
Since when did we get good stuff? Blizzard cant even give us good gear for levelling.

Remember the massive lack of defence gear from 60 to 70?
Or again the lack of good tanking blues from 70 to 78?
Ellifain @ Khaz'Goroth does not approve of torture, save where there's experience/rep/loot involved.
masterpoobaa
 
Posts: 2230
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:14 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia, Earth, Sol, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe.

Re: I want my Legendary tanking items!

Postby Amirya » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:19 pm

masterpoobaa wrote:Blizzard cant even give us good gear for levelling.

Half the time, Blizzard can't give us good dps or heals.
Fetzie wrote:The Defias Brotherhood is back, and this time they are acting as racketeers in Goldshire. Anybody wishing to dance for money must now pay them protection money or be charged triple the normal amount when repairing.
Amirya
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:59 am

Re: I want my Legendary tanking items!

Postby d503 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:40 pm

masterpoobaa wrote:Tanks ain't getting jack-squat.
Since when did we get good stuff? Blizzard cant even give us good gear for levelling.

Remember the massive lack of defence gear from 60 to 70?
Or again the lack of good tanking blues from 70 to 78?


There were plenty of craftable items at those levels, you're likely mostly pissed because they weren't better than tier 6...

And now-a-days, tanks don't really end up crafting that crap 'cause they can just perform badly as DPS in randoms and get epics for their tanking set...broken system is way broke.
User avatar
d503
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:31 pm
Location: Northern California, US

Re: I want my Legendary tanking items!

Postby Adryl » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:42 pm

That's how I got my tank set. I just was able to accumulate items here and there in ICC. Before I even put Prot as my off spec I had like 4 pieces from ICC 10 and various others from ToC 10 and 5 mans.
Image
User avatar
Adryl
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:32 am
Location: Not getting any work done

Re: I want my Legendary tanking items!

Postby bldavis » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:18 pm

i think the biggest thing that im calling bs about the small market on is the warglaives

they are restricted to just rogues and warriors

iirc they are 1hd swords.... ie hunter usable, yet they are restricted!
and they are saying 4 tank classes is more restrictive then 2 specific classes

oh and heres the links
Warglaive
Warglaive

edit: fixt link
Image

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
User avatar
bldavis
 
Posts: 7361
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Searching for myself. If i get back before I return, please have me stop and wait for myself.

Re: I want my Legendary tanking items!

Postby Adryl » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:21 pm

bldavis wrote:i think the biggest thing that im calling bs about the small market on is the warglaives

they are restricted to just rogues and warriors

iirc they are 1hd swords.... ie hunter usable, yet they are restricted!
and they are saying 4 tank classes is more restrictive then 2 specific classes

oh and heres the links
Warglaive
Warglaive


As I have said twice now lol. And thank you for the clarification on the links and warrior/Rogue use-ability. And not just Hunters, through they came after BC, DK technically DW. Hell, I'd like to see DK's rockin the warglavies.
Image
User avatar
Adryl
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:32 am
Location: Not getting any work done

Re: I want my Legendary tanking items!

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:34 pm

Sabindeus wrote:Lythac's point is 100% true and I'd say almost the entire reason why they won't do it. Thunderfury back in the day was a huuuuuge difference in damage income and threat output for tanks, eclipsing entire tiers of gear difference. Doing something like that again would be a colossal mistake. That having been said, a legendary Str or Agi (2 versions like atiesh/quel'danar?) 1H with mastery and some sort of neutral special ability that allowed it to viably go to tank or dps might be possible.

Fridmarr wrote:We're due though given that they've covered everyone else since then. I'm not really buying their logic much there either considering they've essentially had class specific legendary weapons. But I have to admit, it wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't something for tanks available as they've really done a poor job with legendary weapons in general.


Assuming you're referring to Warblades, then you could easily say that Fury War + Rogues outnumber all tanks. If you're referring to Thori'dal then yeah whatever, that was fairly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things imo. Also I like the legendary weapons so far... :/

Yeah...hand of ragnaros had a broad audience. Warblades were aimed at melee dps when at a time when you were also carrying 3 tanks, it's not so overwhelming, and then yeah there's Thori'dal which fully counts.

I have no problem with the weapons themselves, their implementation is the problem. I mean hell you just called one of these Legendary items...irrelevant.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9666
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: valura and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: valura and 1 guest
?php } else { ?