I want my Legendary tanking items!

[Amirya]

The morphing weapon seems an answer. Whilst Blizzard are correct that tanks are a minority and always will be, I'm surprised they aren't offering a legendary carrot to try and motivate more people to be tanks?

Do we really want to make loot the motivating factor for people to roll tank classes? No thanks...

This.

I'd rather be a legendary tank figure on my server than see retards with legendary items all over the place.

[Adryl]

I don't see the taboo in having a Legendary tank weapon. As far as I'm concerned 4 tank classes can use it. Same as healy. And yet they say there isn't a market for it. As far as I am concerned the Bow really only applied to 1 class (ok War for pull and Rogue for god knows what). The warglavies we're only usable with certain classes (War and Rogue right? Don't have any sort of way to check that at work). I do not want to hear that there aren't enough classes/people for it. There will always need to be at least 2 tanks in a raid. ALWAYS. Where as there is not always a warrior, or a Rogue, or a Hunter.

[Brutalicus]

Well, if tanks are a minority and they want to cater to more specs, then they could just put in an epic tank quest, like Quel'serrar. Sure, it wasn't legendary, but when you saw that awesome green glow you knew you were looking at a tank. Same with Lok'delar/Rhok'delar for hunters. Although if the "epic quest" is a guild effort, than it might as well be orange and cause the same guild drama, I guess. So it would have to be a player/small group effort.

edit: OK, so the green glow wasn't the awesome part. But you know what I meant.

[d503]

Well, if tanks are a minority and they want to cater to more specs, then they could just put in an epic tank quest, like Quel'serrar. Sure, it wasn't legendary, but when you saw that awesome green glow you knew you were looking at a tank. Same with Lok'delar/Rhok'delar for hunters. Although if the "epic quest" is a guild effort, than it might as well be orange and cause the same guild drama, I guess. So it would have to be a player/small group effort.

edit: OK, so the green glow wasn't the awesome part. But you know what I meant.

This is the direction I think would be more likely...think like Quel'delar as well.

Also, just think of it from a percentages point of view:

2/10 players in any given 10m are tanks, therefore 20% of the distribution of items.
2-3/25 players in any given 25m are tanks, therefore 8-12% of the distribution of items.
2-3/10 players in any given 10m are healers, therefore 20-30% of the distribution of items.
5-7/25 players in any given 25m are healers, therefore 20-28% of the distribution of items.
5-6/10 players in any given 10m are DPS, and therefore 50-60% of the distribution of items.
15-18/25 players in any given 25m are DPS, and therefore 60-72% of the distribution of items.

Now you can slice and dice those DPS numbers down to Melee and Caster, and also based on Weapon Skill available, but the conclusion you're going to come down to is that there's always gonna be more of a % of DPS and Healers than tanks, and therefore the legendary that you spend lots of development time making unique, adding a quest, and balancing will be applicable to more players than it would if it were made for tanks.

Just my 2c, but I'm looking at it from an objective POV.

[Adryl]

This is the direction I think would be more likely...think like Quel'delar as well.

Also, just think of it from a percentages point of view:

2/10 players in any given 10m are tanks, therefore 20% of the distribution of items.
2-3/25 players in any given 25m are tanks, therefore 8-12% of the distribution of items.
2-3/10 players in any given 10m are healers, therefore 20-30% of the distribution of items.
5-7/25 players in any given 25m are healers, therefore 20-28% of the distribution of items.
5-6/10 players in any given 10m are DPS, and therefore 50-60% of the distribution of items.
15-18/25 players in any given 25m are DPS, and therefore 60-72% of the distribution of items.

Now you can slice and dice those DPS numbers down to Melee and Caster, and also based on Weapon Skill available, but the conclusion you're going to come down to is that there's always gonna be more of a % of DPS and Healers than tanks, and therefore the legendary that you spend lots of development time making unique, adding a quest, and balancing will be applicable to more players than it would if it were made for tanks.

Just my 2c, but I'm looking at it from an objective POV.

I agree on the healer % completely. DPS no. Though you are looking at (lets use 10 man) 5 players, how many of those could use the current legendary weapons available (including atiesh)? Like I mentioned previously, some of the weapons are class specific or weapon skill specific. Out of the 5 How many could use the weapon. Lets say u had Hunter, 2 melee, and 2 spell casters, 2 tanks and 3 healers.

Legendary weapons for Melee dps applies to two people
Spell casters: two people
Ranged: one person and possibly a warrior tank or rogue (highly unlikely imo)
Healer: three (refer to what I said at beginning of post)
Tanks: two.

Yeah this is a randomized raid comp and sometimes it is 4 caster dps and 1 melee but still, I do not see the big issue with a Legendary tank weapon. Yeah in 25 man the dps is largely increased which means more peeps per loot. But look at the Legendary Bow. As far as I'm concerened, it was a little exclusive for hunters. Yeah Rogues and Wars could use it but it is a Hunter weapon through and through.

[d503]

I agree on the healer % completely. DPS no. Though you are looking at (lets use 10 man) 5 players, how many of those could use the current legendary weapons available (including atiesh)? Like I mentioned previously, some of the weapons are class specific or weapon skill specific. Out of the 5 How many could use the weapon. Lets say u had Hunter, 2 melee, and 2 spell casters, 2 tanks and 3 healers.

Legendary weapons for Melee dps applies to two people
Spell casters: two people
Ranged: one person and possibly a warrior tank or rogue (highly unlikely imo)
Healer: three (refer to what I said at beginning of post)
Tanks: two.

Yeah this is a randomized raid comp and sometimes it is 4 caster dps and 1 melee but still, I do not see the big issue with a Legendary tank weapon. Yeah in 25 man the dps is largely increased which means more peeps per loot. But look at the Legendary Bow. As far as I'm concerened, it was a little exclusive for hunters. Yeah Rogues and Wars could use it but it is a Hunter weapon through and through.

I agree. It breaks down pretty quickly when you balance for 10m, because just about everyone is equally entitled...I think 25man is likely the better example...or at least it justifies my opinions

[Adryl]

Not going to argue that. 25 man definitely fits with the figures you have given. But with the change to 10/25 lockout and loot tables in Cata, would you change your opinion?

[d503]

Not going to argue that. 25 man definitely fits with the figures you have given. But with the change to 10/25 lockout and loot tables in Cata, would you change your opinion?

It certainly complicates the situation, but does not change my opinion. If you base it on 10m b/c 20% of players are tanks in 10 mans, you're leaving out a large segment of players...

It's all projection, though, considering that we don't know how many guilds are going to drop to 10 from 25m raiding.

I still stand firm as the 25man numbers being the ones they should balance against.

[masterpoobaa]

Tanks ain't getting jack-squat.
Since when did we get good stuff? Blizzard cant even give us good gear for levelling.

Remember the massive lack of defence gear from 60 to 70?
Or again the lack of good tanking blues from 70 to 78?

[Amirya]

Blizzard cant even give us good gear for levelling.

Half the time, Blizzard can't give us good dps or heals.

[d503]

Tanks ain't getting jack-squat.
Since when did we get good stuff? Blizzard cant even give us good gear for levelling.

Remember the massive lack of defence gear from 60 to 70?
Or again the lack of good tanking blues from 70 to 78?

There were plenty of craftable items at those levels, you're likely mostly pissed because they weren't better than tier 6...

And now-a-days, tanks don't really end up crafting that crap 'cause they can just perform badly as DPS in randoms and get epics for their tanking set...broken system is way broke.

[Adryl]

That's how I got my tank set. I just was able to accumulate items here and there in ICC. Before I even put Prot as my off spec I had like 4 pieces from ICC 10 and various others from ToC 10 and 5 mans.

[bldavis]

i think the biggest thing that im calling bs about the small market on is the warglaives

they are restricted to just rogues and warriors

iirc they are 1hd swords.... ie hunter usable, yet they are restricted!
and they are saying 4 tank classes is more restrictive then 2 specific classes

oh and heres the links
Warglaive
Warglaive

edit: fixt link

[Adryl]

i think the biggest thing that im calling bs about the small market on is the warglaives

they are restricted to just rogues and warriors

iirc they are 1hd swords.... ie hunter usable, yet they are restricted!
and they are saying 4 tank classes is more restrictive then 2 specific classes

oh and heres the links
Warglaive
Warglaive

As I have said twice now lol. And thank you for the clarification on the links and warrior/Rogue use-ability. And not just Hunters, through they came after BC, DK technically DW. Hell, I'd like to see DK's rockin the warglavies.

[Fridmarr]

Lythac's point is 100% true and I'd say almost the entire reason why they won't do it. Thunderfury back in the day was a huuuuuge difference in damage income and threat output for tanks, eclipsing entire tiers of gear difference. Doing something like that again would be a colossal mistake. That having been said, a legendary Str or Agi (2 versions like atiesh/quel'danar?) 1H with mastery and some sort of neutral special ability that allowed it to viably go to tank or dps might be possible.

We're due though given that they've covered everyone else since then. I'm not really buying their logic much there either considering they've essentially had class specific legendary weapons. But I have to admit, it wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't something for tanks available as they've really done a poor job with legendary weapons in general.

Assuming you're referring to Warblades, then you could easily say that Fury War + Rogues outnumber all tanks. If you're referring to Thori'dal then yeah whatever, that was fairly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things imo. Also I like the legendary weapons so far... :/

Yeah...hand of ragnaros had a broad audience. Warblades were aimed at melee dps when at a time when you were also carrying 3 tanks, it's not so overwhelming, and then yeah there's Thori'dal which fully counts.

I have no problem with the weapons themselves, their implementation is the problem. I mean hell you just called one of these Legendary items...irrelevant.