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Guild App Screenshot

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Re: Guild App Screenshot

Postby Malthrax » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:36 am

If the guild app says "post screenshot of your UI", then you either post a screenshot of your UI, or you don't bother applying to that guild. Simple as that.
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Re: Guild App Screenshot

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:43 am

Malthrax wrote:If the guild app says "post screenshot of your UI", then you either post a screenshot of your UI, or you don't bother applying to that guild. Simple as that.
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Re: Guild App Screenshot

Postby Epimer » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:43 am

Goins2754 wrote:I know raiders in ICC in no epics that are 7/12 (Guild: Undergeared).


What a ridiculous tangent to go off on in a UI-related thread. Have you seen the Undergeared videos on YouTube?

Re: playing ability being inferred from UI setup - setting up a UI which allows you to overcome some of the limitations of the default UI is just another form of optimisation. You can raid "just fine" with XPerl raid frames taking up one third of your screen and with another third taken up by Recount set to healing done (plus some ridiculous SexyMap skin hogging space in the top right), just like you can raid as 0/71/0. Neither are optimal. If a class relies heavily on proc watching or DoT timing and the player's UI doesn't accommodate any proc notification or DoT timer then they're at best making things more difficult for themselves and at worst gimping themselves into under-performing.
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Re: Guild App Screenshot

Postby Goins2754 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:53 am

Epimer wrote:
Goins2754 wrote:I know raiders in ICC in no epics that are 7/12 (Guild: Undergeared).


What a ridiculous tangent to go off on in a UI-related thread. Have you seen the Undergeared videos on YouTube?

Re: playing ability being inferred from UI setup - setting up a UI which allows you to overcome some of the limitations of the default UI is just another form of optimisation. You can raid "just fine" with XPerl raid frames taking up one third of your screen and with another third taken up by Recount set to healing done (plus some ridiculous SexyMap skin hogging space in the top right), just like you can raid as 0/71/0. Neither are optimal. If a class relies heavily on proc watching or DoT timing and the player's UI doesn't accommodate any proc notification or DoT timer then they're at best making things more difficult for themselves and at worst gimping themselves into under-performing.


Exactly as I tried to say. Nothing but in game performance can determine whether or not a player is good or not. If a guild app asked me for an UI screenshot, I'd submit it. However, this would signal warning flags all through my body & probably make my spidey-sense explode. My first impression from this kind of question is "we're too good for you. You have to prove to us that you're good enough to play with us."

They're allowed to ask what they want and run the guild how they want. But, what if I'm a good raider who plays my class well who doesn't like to be bothered with two weeks of LUA errors every time a patch comes out? I show up on time, I bring consumables for all. I have subtle advice for other players who may be underperfoming. But, I click? Well, that guild lost out & it's not sweat of my back. As a good player, I know I'm gonna find a guild that meshes with me in both progression & playstyle goals.
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Re: Guild App Screenshot

Postby theckhd » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:01 am

Cronus wrote:
theckhd wrote:
Cronus wrote:I can move, click, and stay out of fire all at the same time. Just my 2 cents here.

Do you keyboard turn?


Heck no. I strafe and use mouse. I used to be hard core FPS before wow so I move like im storming a flag with baddies everywhere. Keyboard turn is too dam slow for me. I know where your going with this but I have trained myself to click and move with no hesitation. I am generally in the top 5 dps in 25mans. I know most cant move, click and maintain dps but I can. I might be the minority but having an app declined beacuse of that is not justified. I think if they were worried about it, take the app into a raid with fire etc and have them show their stuff.


While turning with the mouse, you can't be clicking your spells, can you? (Honest question btw: I'm assuming that while holding RMB you can't click on skills with LMB). That means you're going to lose a GCD here and there on movement fights.

You can probably minimize this effect with practice, but I doubt you can eliminate it. And for the very top guilds, every GCD matters.
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Re: Guild App Screenshot

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:04 am

It comes down to the fact that fundamentally, as a clicker, you cannot be as efficient as a proficient keybinder. Yes, an efficient clicker can make it seems as though they're a keybinder, however you will not be as good as an excellent keybinder. No matter how good you THINK you are.
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Re: Guild App Screenshot

Postby Senador » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:07 am

If it’s on the application, and the officers choose to enforce it, it’s well within their rights to decline an application for not following instructions, or providing all of the information requested.

I tend to see it more and more frequently, especially from the higher end progression guilds. It is often to see that a player is able to maximize their UI in order to do their role to the best of their ability and has the ‘mandatory’ mods installed. UI modifications can help a lot with certain things (Some form of instant cleansing such as through Decursive or a Clique/Unit frames set up; easy to see debuff forms to make certain special abilities like Penetrating Cold and Harvest Soul are healed appropriately; etc). It also gives a general view of what portion of the screen you can actually see, for situational awareness requirements.

In all honesty, it’s the officer’s guild and they can choose to decline an app for whatever reason they want to, and leaving an option on an application blank doesn’t particularly look good.

Also:

You have to prove to us that you're good enough to play with us."


What’s wrong with a guild asking this? A guild has to invest both time and gear into a new applicant and player. Why is it unreasonable for them to ask you to prove you are capable of playing at the level they are expecting?
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Re: Guild App Screenshot

Postby Epimer » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:09 am

Goins2754 wrote:But, what if I'm a good raider who plays my class well who doesn't like to be bothered with two weeks of LUA errors every time a patch comes out? I show up on time, I bring consumables for all. I have subtle advice for other players who may be underperfoming. But, I click?


Then you're a good raider who's probably - probably - doing less DPS/being that bit slower at moving than you would have with a decent set of keybindings. I'm not saying it's a black and white issue (and not something I even feel that strongly about, so sorry if my tone's a bit pugnacious), but for the majority of players, clicking is "underperforming" relative to a well laid-out set of keybindings, once the familarity's there.
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Re: Guild App Screenshot

Postby Arcand » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:24 am

Malthrax wrote:If the guild app says "post screenshot of your UI", then you either post a screenshot of your UI, or you don't bother applying to that guild. Simple as that.


Yeah, of course - guilds have the unalienable right to make up whatever
superficial-but-time-efficient app criteria they want. I only object if they
claim those criteria are also good at determining player style or skill.

"I am a good player therefore someone with a UI like mine is probably also
a good player" is reeeeally shaky reasoning.
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Re: Guild App Screenshot

Postby theckhd » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:25 am

Goins2754 wrote:I think this is all hookey. You can tell stuff about me from my UI? Psh. What if I'm handicapped & use a pencil in my teeth to hit my keybinds?

Are you serious? It's not like they're accepting/denying on just the UI. They'll also look at parses, gear, raid experience, etc. All of which should filter out the quadriplegic pencil-gnawing segment of the population.

Yes, I can tell stuff about you from your UI. I can tell if you don't use Omen. I can tell if you don't have DoT timers, proc trackers, boss mods, and a number of other addons that offer a quantifiable performance increase. I can tell if your UI is so cluttered that you can't see your feet. All of those are things that are worth considering when accepting or denying an applicant.

Though I can tell a lot more about you by the way you post your app and the parses you submit. The UI is just a portion of the information that helps make the decision.

For example, take this statement:
Goins2754 wrote:And if a guild is going to be "so hardcore" [read: elitist] about my setup, then they can suck it. I wouldn't want to raid with a bunch of uptight jackasses anyway. It's probably gonna be 24 other people telling everyone how to play the classes the best way.

You make an unfounded logical leap here, insinuating that every guild that requires a UI screenshot must be full of elitist jackasses. Except that there are types of information one can glean from the UI that are relevant to the application process. Right off of the bat, this combative attitude triggers some red flags.

Is this what you'll do when I decide to change up the strategy during a boss encounter? If I want to make an adjustment to cover a spot of weakness, are you going to tell me, "We don't need to change the strat, that one works. I saw a group of players in blues do it on youtube."

Goins2754 wrote:Exactly as I tried to say. Nothing but in game performance can determine whether or not a player is good or not. If a guild app asked me for an UI screenshot, I'd submit it. However, this would signal warning flags all through my body & probably make my spidey-sense explode. My first impression from this kind of question is "we're too good for you. You have to prove to us that you're good enough to play with us."

You do realize that most well-progressed guilds ask for a UI screenshot, right? They also ask for parses to evaluate in-game performance. But in this case, your spidey-sense would prevent you from applying to any decently progressed guild.

And to be fair, your impression is probably right. They do want you to prove to us that you're good enough to play with them, because they don't want to waste their time with bad applicants. Instead of rising to this challenge, your attitude is, "fuck them, I'll find somewhere less discriminating," as if it were some personal insult.

The thing to remember is that when you're applying to a guild, they don't care about you. They want a fast and efficient way to weed out applicants that aren't likely to succeed. Filtering applicants based on obvious shortcomings of their UI is an easy way to do this, as is throwing out applicants with sub-par gear or lack of experience. Are any of these methods fool-proof? No, there will always be false positives, good players that fall through the cracks. But that doesn't matter, because these guilds have a steady stream of applicants to choose from.

<edit> Poaching from another thread:
Goins2754 wrote:I always pick my professions for RP reasons. I mean, you're probably never going to get a BiS item from crafting so it's all a moot point in the endgame.

I wouldn't put that on a guild application either, personally, especially for the type of guild that asks for a UI screenshot. That by itself would probably be an instant denial. It implies "I don't take every step I can to optimize my character." Which is all these guilds are looking for in a UI anyway - seeing if you optimize your play space as well as your character.
Last edited by theckhd on Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guild App Screenshot

Postby Gracerath » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:28 am

I don't see the reasoning for outright refusal or even disdain for being asked for a screenshot of your UI. It's not really a huge deal. Unless the fear is that you know your UI blows and would be a detriment to getting into said guild(s). And if that is the case, I'd say that is a perfect opportunity and motivation to sit down and craft something you'll enjoy.

Still, its not like they are asking for you social security number and a copy of your birth certificate and picture ID. Its a damn screenshot.

Re: Clicking. I used to click and main tank in TBC. At the ass end of TK as we were working on Kael'thas, I finally said enough is enough and started working on keybinds. I will tell you now, learning to keybind makes you 10000% more able to react to things faster, have a tighter dps rotation, heal better, move better, basically do everything in game better. Yes, it takes several weeks or even months to get used to it. It is worth the effort. I promise.
Bye space sword!
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Re: Guild App Screenshot

Postby Goins2754 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:35 am

Maybe. It all sounds like a long, drawn out form of "GS?" to me.

For me, playing in a guild that is friendly first & hardcore second is the key. What if I'm a mouthbreathing, clicking, keyboard turning, frost mage doing 1500 dps in a raid? Does that mean I shouldn't even be in your guild? I mean, if I'm a nice guy and I'm trying to help then just don't take me to raids. It's not like your guild is going to fill up.

I'd say it's much more fair to have an application with questions like "What's your favorite aspect of WoW? Why did you pick your particular spec? What do you expect from our guild? What can we expect of you?" What's silly is "What's your gearscore? How much DPS do you do? Link achievements."

I say bring them in and see what kind of player they are. Maybe they make the "A" team, maybe they don't. Either way, you might just make a friend and have some more people in the guild to type the obligatory "Gratz" when you down that tough raid boss for the first time.
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Re: Guild App Screenshot

Postby cerwillis » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:39 am

Goins2754 wrote:Maybe. It all sounds like a long, drawn out form of "GS?" to me.

For me, playing in a guild that is friendly first & hardcore second is the key. What if I'm a mouthbreathing, clicking, keyboard turning, frost mage doing 1500 dps in a raid? Does that mean I shouldn't even be in your guild? I mean, if I'm a nice guy and I'm trying to help then just don't take me to raids. It's not like your guild is going to fill up.

I'd say it's much more fair to have an application with questions like "What's your favorite aspect of WoW? Why did you pick your particular spec? What do you expect from our guild? What can we expect of you?" What's silly is "What's your gearscore? How much DPS do you do? Link achievements."

I say bring them in and see what kind of player they are. Maybe they make the "A" team, maybe they don't. Either way, you might just make a friend and have some more people in the guild to type the obligatory "Gratz" when you down that tough raid boss for the first time.

The kind of guild that you are discussing is in a different universe from the ones that would look at UIs and parses. Those guilds are damn sure to want to know how much DPS you can do.
Last edited by cerwillis on Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guild App Screenshot

Postby Goins2754 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:40 am

Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here's my UI. Tell me what you see and your analyzation of it. If you're right, then I'll bow and and concede this debate. (And sorry it's not my main or anything. This was a RP screenshot & the servers are down. It's all I have at this very second.)
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Re: Guild App Screenshot

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:42 am

Okay but that right htere is the major difference. You're not looking to apply to a guild as a major raider. You're looking for the social aspect.

And guild's that typically ask for UI shots couldn't care less about the social side of it.

Edit: Bah, cerwillis beat me to it.
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