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Missing the Memo

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Re: Missing the Memo

Postby rodos » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:22 pm

Xenix wrote:Got a nice surprise yesterday when I had 80-90 zombies rounded up for the Zombiefest achievement and went to use HoTR, then Consecration to kill them all and discovered both of those now have the 10-mob aoe damage cap. Took me a good 20-30 seconds to kill them all (when it would have been instant pre-patch), and I had to HW stun plus heal myself at least twice to survive. (probably should have switched to ret aura and let them kill themselves but I was too shocked at them not dying fast to think about it)

When did that change get put in? :cry:

I knew uncapped paladin AoE was too good to last.

Time to dust off the Petrified Lichen Guard, attach Titanium Shield Spike, equip Darkmoon Card: Vengeance, maybe Figurine of the Colossus if you have health problems. Everything old is new again.
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Re: Missing the Memo

Postby Sabindeus » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:16 am

rodos wrote:
Xenix wrote:Got a nice surprise yesterday when I had 80-90 zombies rounded up for the Zombiefest achievement and went to use HoTR, then Consecration to kill them all and discovered both of those now have the 10-mob aoe damage cap. Took me a good 20-30 seconds to kill them all (when it would have been instant pre-patch), and I had to HW stun plus heal myself at least twice to survive. (probably should have switched to ret aura and let them kill themselves but I was too shocked at them not dying fast to think about it)

When did that change get put in? :cry:

I knew uncapped paladin AoE was too good to last.

Time to dust off the Petrified Lichen Guard, attach Titanium Shield Spike, equip Darkmoon Card: Vengeance, maybe Figurine of the Colossus if you have health problems. Everything old is new again.


don't forget Essence of the Pure Flame
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Re: Missing the Memo

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:57 am

Xenix wrote:Got a nice surprise yesterday when I had 80-90 zombies rounded up for the Zombiefest achievement and went to use HoTR, then Consecration to kill them all and discovered both of those now have the 10-mob aoe damage cap. Took me a good 20-30 seconds to kill them all (when it would have been instant pre-patch), and I had to HW stun plus heal myself at least twice to survive. (probably should have switched to ret aura and let them kill themselves but I was too shocked at them not dying fast to think about it)

When did that change get put in? :cry:


Ugh, really? I didn't know they "fixed" that. They still scale linearly up to 10 though, right?

Guess I need to go read up on aoe damage caps.
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Re: Missing the Memo

Postby Chicken » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:06 am

theckhd wrote:
Xenix wrote:Got a nice surprise yesterday when I had 80-90 zombies rounded up for the Zombiefest achievement and went to use HoTR, then Consecration to kill them all and discovered both of those now have the 10-mob aoe damage cap. Took me a good 20-30 seconds to kill them all (when it would have been instant pre-patch), and I had to HW stun plus heal myself at least twice to survive. (probably should have switched to ret aura and let them kill themselves but I was too shocked at them not dying fast to think about it)

When did that change get put in? :cry:


Ugh, really? I didn't know they "fixed" that. They still scale linearly up to 10 though, right?

Guess I need to go read up on aoe damage caps.
They should be scaling linearly up to ten yeah. After that it should be a matter of single target damage multiplied by ten divided by the amount of targets hit.
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Re: Missing the Memo

Postby Shoju » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:07 am

Sabindeus wrote:
rodos wrote:
Xenix wrote:Got a nice surprise yesterday when I had 80-90 zombies rounded up for the Zombiefest achievement and went to use HoTR, then Consecration to kill them all and discovered both of those now have the 10-mob aoe damage cap. Took me a good 20-30 seconds to kill them all (when it would have been instant pre-patch), and I had to HW stun plus heal myself at least twice to survive. (probably should have switched to ret aura and let them kill themselves but I was too shocked at them not dying fast to think about it)

When did that change get put in? :cry:

I knew uncapped paladin AoE was too good to last.

Time to dust off the Petrified Lichen Guard, attach Titanium Shield Spike, equip Darkmoon Card: Vengeance, maybe Figurine of the Colossus if you have health problems. Everything old is new again.


don't forget Essence of the Pure Flame



I prefer This For my AoE situations of joy.
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Re: Missing the Memo

Postby beornus » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:21 am

Did they remove a mount? I saw Kysen or Culhag mention it in a other thread but I loss one in my count also. Hell, on my new alt I have the 10 mount ach but only 9 now so it is one of the Vanilla rep mounts I presume, but cannot remember what I bought so am not sure what I loss.
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I should have kept quiet and thought a fool then to have typed and removed all doubt.
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Re: Missing the Memo

Postby culhag » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:40 am

beornus wrote:Did they remove a mount? I saw Kysen or Culhag mention it in a other thread but I loss one in my count also. Hell, on my new alt I have the 10 mount ach but only 9 now so it is one of the Vanilla rep mounts I presume, but cannot remember what I bought so am not sure what I loss.

I definitely have 119 mounts in my spell book, but my stats page says 118.
There must be a bug somewhere.
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Re: Missing the Memo

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:19 am

It's a known bug - the Paladin Warhorse doesn't count toward the achievement.
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Re: Missing the Memo

Postby Xenix » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:17 pm

theckhd wrote:
Xenix wrote:Got a nice surprise yesterday when I had 80-90 zombies rounded up for the Zombiefest achievement and went to use HoTR, then Consecration to kill them all and discovered both of those now have the 10-mob aoe damage cap. Took me a good 20-30 seconds to kill them all (when it would have been instant pre-patch), and I had to HW stun plus heal myself at least twice to survive. (probably should have switched to ret aura and let them kill themselves but I was too shocked at them not dying fast to think about it)

When did that change get put in? :cry:


Ugh, really? I didn't know they "fixed" that. They still scale linearly up to 10 though, right?

Guess I need to go read up on aoe damage caps.


I wonder if this is an intended change. With bears getting thrash at 81, DK's having pestilence, and warriors having rend-ilence, this means paladins will be the only tank without an uncapped aoe move (aside from Seal of Truth ticks, which aren't aoe). Might be worth posting on the beta forums to ask if it's intended. If you want logs for proof, here's a log of me killing about 20 mobs with only consecration and HotR, and you can see the damage going up as mobs die:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/zeffrz6obpn1m9oe/xe/
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Re: Missing the Memo

Postby rodos » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:29 pm

Shoju wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
rodos wrote:I knew uncapped paladin AoE was too good to last.

Time to dust off the Petrified Lichen Guard, attach Titanium Shield Spike, equip Darkmoon Card: Vengeance, maybe Figurine of the Colossus if you have health problems. Everything old is new again.


don't forget Essence of the Pure Flame



I prefer This For my AoE situations of joy.

Ooh! Does Crystal Spire still work too? How about some Stormchops?

Hopefully Cata with have a nice exploitable quest spawn like those earthen in Howling Fjord. :)
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Re: Missing the Memo

Postby tinalt » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:01 pm

Xenix wrote:Got a nice surprise yesterday when I had 80-90 zombies rounded up for the Zombiefest achievement and went to use HoTR, then Consecration to kill them all and discovered both of those now have the 10-mob aoe damage cap. Took me a good 20-30 seconds to kill them all (when it would have been instant pre-patch), and I had to HW stun plus heal myself at least twice to survive. (probably should have switched to ret aura and let them kill themselves but I was too shocked at them not dying fast to think about it)

When did that change get put in? :cry:


Is this change on live or PTR/Beta?
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Re: Missing the Memo

Postby Xenix » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:03 pm

tinalt wrote:
Xenix wrote:Got a nice surprise yesterday when I had 80-90 zombies rounded up for the Zombiefest achievement and went to use HoTR, then Consecration to kill them all and discovered both of those now have the 10-mob aoe damage cap. Took me a good 20-30 seconds to kill them all (when it would have been instant pre-patch), and I had to HW stun plus heal myself at least twice to survive. (probably should have switched to ret aura and let them kill themselves but I was too shocked at them not dying fast to think about it)

When did that change get put in? :cry:


Is this change on live or PTR/Beta?


Live - that WoL report I linked to two posts up was from me just taking my mole machine to BRD and running over to the hound room, although you could do it just as easily in the big room leading up to the Emperor (which would be a huge pain now without Ret aura - rounding up 70-80 dwarves and having your consecration only ticking for 20 on 'em wouldn't be fun times).
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Re: Missing the Memo

Postby Noradin » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:58 am

Xenix wrote:
theckhd wrote:
Xenix wrote:Got a nice surprise yesterday when I had 80-90 zombies rounded up for the Zombiefest achievement and went to use HoTR, then Consecration to kill them all and discovered both of those now have the 10-mob aoe damage cap. Took me a good 20-30 seconds to kill them all (when it would have been instant pre-patch), and I had to HW stun plus heal myself at least twice to survive. (probably should have switched to ret aura and let them kill themselves but I was too shocked at them not dying fast to think about it)

When did that change get put in? :cry:


Ugh, really? I didn't know they "fixed" that. They still scale linearly up to 10 though, right?

Guess I need to go read up on aoe damage caps.


I wonder if this is an intended change. With bears getting thrash at 81, DK's having pestilence, and warriors having rend-ilence, this means paladins will be the only tank without an uncapped aoe move (aside from Seal of Truth ticks, which aren't aoe). Might be worth posting on the beta forums to ask if it's intended. If you want logs for proof, here's a log of me killing about 20 mobs with only consecration and HotR, and you can see the damage going up as mobs die:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/zeffrz6obpn1m9oe/xe/


I can understand the cap on consecration (even if the talent concerning it gets even more useless), but as all other tanks have a uncaped AoE move HotR should be except, too. We already get punished for being paladins when tanking AoE packs by taking more damage (JotJ is single target).
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Re: Missing the Memo

Postby Xenix » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:37 am

Noradin wrote:I can understand the cap on consecration (even if the talent concerning it gets even more useless), but as all other tanks have a uncaped AoE move HotR should be except, too. We already get punished for being paladins when tanking AoE packs by taking more damage (JotJ is single target).


I would disagree here. For parity, HotR should be aoe capped as the similar moves for all the other tanks (Swipe, T-clap/Shockwave, Bloodboil/D&D) are too. It's one of their aoe dots that isn't capped, which we have Consecration to correspond to (ticking for about the same as rend,disease and thrash).

However, even uncapping Consecration would mean paladins have a 30-second c/d on our uncapped move while other tanks have a 6-second c/d, and they'd need to revert back to its old c/d to be completely equal (which I doubt will happen). Knocking it down to 8 seconds again would be more of a quality of life thing, though, and not really necessary if they uncapped it, as long as Blizz didn't make any encounters requiring 10+ adds to be picked up more than once every 30 seconds.

An alternative would be a deep prot talent that made Holy Wrath apply a stack of the Seal of Truth DoT to all enemies it hit, at the risk of further homogenizing all the tanking classes, lol.
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Re: Missing the Memo

Postby Shoju » Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:27 am

Yes to both as well as Immolation Oil from alchemy. I have a low level paladin that I have tricked out with all the damage auras/on hit/things that I can to see just how much I can solo. At level 60 Pre-4.0 I cleared LBRS solo (it cost me about ~300g in consumables.)
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