Remove Advertisements

Post Your Successes!

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: Post Your Successes!

Postby Sagara » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:39 am

I wouldn't mind BOTH. Scenarios for the quick queue, quick fun, and 5-man for the better loot. And if that means we get three leveling dungeons for 6 scenarios or something like that.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3416
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Post Your Successes!

Postby halabar » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:44 am

Sagara wrote:I wouldn't mind BOTH. Scenarios for the quick queue, quick fun, and 5-man for the better loot. And if that means we get three leveling dungeons for 6 scenarios or something like that.


But right now, scenarios are faster, more fun, and provide better loot.. and a quicker queue.. so who needs 5-mans?

The other benefit of scenarios is that they can be developed using more existing assets to tell parts of the story, so we can get more of them, and get new ones as needed. 5-man require a lot more effort and pull resources from other efforts. Much less of a loss if a scenario gets "old" compared to a 5-man.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9376
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: Post Your Successes!

Postby Flex » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:48 am

The three steps would be:
Dungeon Finder: lower difficulty but more difficult than current heroics, personal loot system
Pre-Made: Challenging, requires communication, etc, group loot like current
Challenge: Class stacking, item level capped, valuable permanent and temporary cosmetic rewards, guaranteed random stat epic (Flex level) at the end for beating at least the Bronze timer
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 7500
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: Post Your Successes!

Postby Sagara » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:52 am

halabar wrote:
Sagara wrote:I wouldn't mind BOTH. Scenarios for the quick queue, quick fun, and 5-man for the better loot. And if that means we get three leveling dungeons for 6 scenarios or something like that.


But right now, scenarios are faster, more fun, and provide better loot.. and a quicker queue.. so who needs 5-mans?

The other benefit of scenarios is that they can be developed using more existing assets to tell parts of the story, so we can get more of them, and get new ones as needed. 5-man require a lot more effort and pull resources from other efforts. Much less of a loss if a scenario gets "old" compared to a 5-man.


Tanks and heals would like a few actually :-p But you're right, probably a handful tops during leveling.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3416
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Post Your Successes!

Postby Flex » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:59 am

Also each zone would have at least one scenario and 5 man that is a direct continuation of a zone scenario.

Jade Forest: Scenario would have been the battle at the Jade Dragon monument leading to the 5 man where you defeat the freed Sha.

Valley of the Four Winds: Scenario would have been the quest chain around the Brewery with the 5 man being that follow up.

Krasarang: No idea about this zone at all.

Kun-Lai: Tweaked the Questing so you'd get a Scenario where the fighting off the Yaungol allows the Sha to infest the Shado-Pan and then you go in to help free them.

Townlong: Scenario built around destroying the bridge that the Klaxxi are trying to rebuild in the 5 man.

Dreadwastes: Scenario where you help repulse the first exploratory attack against the wall leading to the 5 man where you finish off the invaders.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 7500
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: Post Your Successes!

Postby halabar » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:13 pm

So that's 7 5-mans plus 7 scenarios that would all become completly irrelevant as soon as you can touch the first LFR/FLEX raid? What a waste.

5 mans are a relic of the age when most players never set foot in a raid. They are fine as they exist for leveling content, but are really a resouce drain for max level content. I'm not against a few being added for leveling areas, especially to teach new talents, but scenarios fufill the need for short content that can introduce the lore, and provide a daily content fix.

I'd much rather see a few new scenarios to tackle lore with each new patch, rather than any 5-mans at max level.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9376
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: Post Your Successes!

Postby Teranoid » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:14 pm

halabar wrote:I don't see the fascination with 5-mans, and why so many of the forums rage about how "x" could have been scrapped in favor of developing more 5-mans. 5 mans can go DIAF. Looking back at my toons, over that past year, I've only run 5-mans to boost leveling, and after having done heroic scenarios now, I see NO need for 5-mans at all at max level. We don't need then to teach tanking or healing, you have LFR and FLEX for that. Why would I want to do a 5-man at 90 when I could do an LFR wing in the same amount of time?

I totally disagree with Flex on this. 5-mans should be the leveling content to teach skills, and scenarios should be the max-level short content for delivering lore and providing daily content.


5 mans won't even need to exist for "teaching" anything with Proving Grounds finally being implemented. I've personally gotten to the point where I can level faster just questing and when that character reaches 90 it's not even necessary to do heroic 5 mans. Craft you some of the pvp gear, nab a 489 piece from the Barrens weekly and grab your 502 boots and go hit LFR.
User avatar
Teranoid
 
Posts: 2156
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:56 pm

Re: Post Your Successes!

Postby cdan » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:23 pm

Teranoid wrote:
halabar wrote:I don't see the fascination with 5-mans, and why so many of the forums rage about how "x" could have been scrapped in favor of developing more 5-mans. 5 mans can go DIAF. Looking back at my toons, over that past year, I've only run 5-mans to boost leveling, and after having done heroic scenarios now, I see NO need for 5-mans at all at max level. We don't need then to teach tanking or healing, you have LFR and FLEX for that. Why would I want to do a 5-man at 90 when I could do an LFR wing in the same amount of time?

I totally disagree with Flex on this. 5-mans should be the leveling content to teach skills, and scenarios should be the max-level short content for delivering lore and providing daily content.


5 mans won't even need to exist for "teaching" anything with Proving Grounds finally being implemented. I've personally gotten to the point where I can level faster just questing and when that character reaches 90 it's not even necessary to do heroic 5 mans. Craft you some of the pvp gear, nab a 489 piece from the Barrens weekly and grab your 502 boots and go hit LFR.


...and let 24 other people carry you through a raid. :wink:
cdan
 
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:58 am

Re: Post Your Successes!

Postby Flex » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:24 pm

It's LFR so it is roughly 7 people carrying everyone else.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 7500
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: Post Your Successes!

Postby halabar » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:03 pm

Teranoid wrote:
halabar wrote:I don't see the fascination with 5-mans, and why so many of the forums rage about how "x" could have been scrapped in favor of developing more 5-mans. 5 mans can go DIAF. Looking back at my toons, over that past year, I've only run 5-mans to boost leveling, and after having done heroic scenarios now, I see NO need for 5-mans at all at max level. We don't need then to teach tanking or healing, you have LFR and FLEX for that. Why would I want to do a 5-man at 90 when I could do an LFR wing in the same amount of time?

I totally disagree with Flex on this. 5-mans should be the leveling content to teach skills, and scenarios should be the max-level short content for delivering lore and providing daily content.


5 mans won't even need to exist for "teaching" anything with Proving Grounds finally being implemented. I've personally gotten to the point where I can level faster just questing and when that character reaches 90 it's not even necessary to do heroic 5 mans. Craft you some of the pvp gear, nab a 489 piece from the Barrens weekly and grab your 502 boots and go hit LFR.


True. Leave the old ones, and just develop scenarios as needed to introduce new content.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9376
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: Post Your Successes!

Postby econ21 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:52 pm

I love 5 mans. BC era heroics and Cata five mans. I love marking targets, organising cc, explaining boss tactics to newbies and persevering through 20 wipes on the last boss of ZG. I find them much more fun to tank than raids, where the artificial dances and stop-start flow of progression wipes break any immersion.

I hate "gogogo" 5 mans where everyone massively outgears them though, as happened late Wotlk, Cata and now MoP. They are not quite as charmless as scenarios, but nearly. Both are content I do to cap points not because they are fun.
econ21
 
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:53 am

Re: Post Your Successes!

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:22 pm

I like both scenarios and dungeons.


On other news, I watched Pacific Rim, the whole time I tried to match the characters in the movie to their analogue in Evangelion. Definitively worth watching though -- if what you want to see is giant mecha vs kaijus -- since there's a lot of it.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11061
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Post Your Successes!

Postby Nooska » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:16 am

I see a lot of "oh we are 2 tiers in, 5 mans are eeeeaaaasyyy" in the above discussion.
The 5 mans were actually difficult enough for the expected gearlevels when you hit 90 for the "heroic" versions.

I can't be the only one that can still remember the need to do "normal" 5 mans to have enough gear to go into heroics, where everyone was just geared for them (and some were a little undergeared as they had highe rilvl stuff in their bags for offspec or to cheat the system).

5 mans don't need to be harder, especially with LFD being the only sensible way to go to one, unless you are in a very very active guild that canget a group going within 5-10 minutes (including getting to the dungeon).
This is the same issue as cata - "the heroics are too easy" being spouted while doing firelands, or even worse DS - 5 mans in MoP are easier than 5 mans in cata, and they needed to be honestly - I can also remember hour long (or longer) 5mans with loads of wipes in relevant gear in cata - and much replacement when people "ran out of allotted time".

Thats also the reason we got more 5mans in both wrath and cata as the tiers progressed, so we still had some challenging nonraid content. (Challenge modes don't quite qualify, because while challenging (by restriction), it is too restricted for a good portion of the playerbase, there are a good number of people out there that need to have slightly better gear to beat a challenge and get the same sense of accomplishment than others).

My $0.02 on the development of 5mans/raids is that hey need to expand their team so they can do the good raids AND a couple of 5 mans - scenarios don't quite cut it, as there is also an issue of wanting to run stuff for gearing up (LFR is quite limited in gearing up, you get 1 chance per week per boss, and an additional 3 chances per week from bonus rolls)
Main Characters:
Nooska, Blood Elf BM/SV Hunter on Argent Dawn (EU)
Morosin, Bloody freezing orc death knight on Argent Dawn (EU)
Niisca, Shady forsaken "priest" on Argent Dawn (EU)

Keeper Emeritus of the BM hunters guide on Elitist Jerks and the wowhead version untill patch 5.3.
User avatar
Nooska
 
Posts: 1499
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am

Re: Post Your Successes!

Postby Treck » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:03 am

Went from a GTX 275 to a 7970.
Holy shit.
Image
User avatar
Treck
 
Posts: 2124
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:10 am

Re: Post Your Successes!

Postby Sagara » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:34 am

Well, we COULD have scenarios giving loot in a manner closer to 5-man (i.e. One guaranteed drop for the final boss, but maybe not appropriate to the group.

I'm convinced there's lots of poential there somewhere...
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3416
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest