First level 70 5 man tanked. Fears averted (for now).

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First level 70 5 man tanked. Fears averted (for now).

Postby antishadow » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:52 pm

(note - I logged out in my AOE grinding gear not my tanking set. My tanking set while not perfect as I'm still questing through Nag is just under 470 defense - not sure on the mitigation but its just over 70% or so with holy shield up if I remember correctly - 108% when redoubt procs)

So - my first post here. I've been lurking for a while reading all I could and learning as much as I can. I'd just like to say thank you to everyone for this site. Not just the creators but all the posters as well. Without all the informative and well thought out posts I'd be lost.

Tonight (me being only 68 was quite amazed) my guild agreed to take me on a Shattered Halls run and tank it as well instead of bringing along my pew pew hunter. (I'm the first paladin tank for the guild, yay!) It went pretty good; accidentally pulled a couple double pulls but chewed through almost everything just fine. (No deaths the entire run!) I should note that we did have a ton of experienced DPS and a druid along DPSing while ready to flip into bear form in a pinch if needed.

Needless to say I was able to tank all the trash mobs up to the first boss without any problems at all. But thats where the problems began.

We got the first boss to about 30% then I lost agro and for the life of me couldn't get it back. He resisted two taunts in a row and everything I could do to try to get it back while the taunts were on their cool down - I even tried a shield toss at him. Luckily we had our fast thinking druid to jump into bear and take it over for most of the remainder of the fight.

The rest of the instance went like that. I nailed all the trash while the druid would take bear form for the bosses as they were all 3-4 levels over me.

The last boss though I was told was the smoothest fight ever.

I suggested that as the adds were only 69 I porcupine them with SoL and just work them down with my shield spike - keep the adds occupied and I wouldn't even need any heals (other than a spot heal here or there). They agreed and it was as smooth as could be.

I just wish that something dropped that I could have used.

End of story; I think I've convinced a few people that paladin tanking is viable and works extremely well while holding multiple mobs at once. The paladin healer had no problems keeping me alive and would end most trash pulls at nearly full mana.
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Postby Belarkan » Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:44 am

Shattered Halls is a nice playground for protection paladins. I remember the first time I went there with guildies, they were pretty scary about myself tanking (first time I tanked with them) and started to put as much CC as possible.
I tried to convince them they do not need that much and they were like "ok, let's wipe to show you" but that just didn't happen :wink:

Anyway, the first boss become a bit crazy at some point. I usually try to AS back to me + BoP also helps and DPS should stop for a while untill you get the aggro back.
At level 70, the other bosses are pretty easy. Last one is just, aoe + taunt the adds. Just nuke the boss.
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Postby ulushnar » Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:53 am

Yeah, there's a bug which sometimes stop's Righteous Defense from working if used straight after you're CC'd (like the Death Coil). On top of that, the fact you were about 4 levels below the boss is gonna give your spells a higher resist rate.

The bug should be fixed soon and a couple more levels should lessen the resist chance.
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Postby Vanifae » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:10 am

Why are so many paladins afraid to tank, just go do it?
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Postby Barathorn » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:48 am

Vanifae wrote:Why are so many paladins afraid to tank, just go do it?


I think a lot of Pally tanks have so many 'percieved' doubters before they even have a chance to try a level 70 instance that it can become quite daunting and a real issue in their minds should they fail at the first obstacle. Not everyone has understanding guilds or friends I guess.

I agree with what you say Vanifae, but I also understand the uncertaincy of your 1st level 70 dungeon for a Pally Tank. Just do your best, its a game not a job interview, so have fun while being aware of what you are trying to achieve.

Grats on a successful run antishadow.

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Postby ShaneFalco » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:57 am

I agree with what Barathorn said.

When I first tank an instance in a PuG, I'm a bit worried, as I'm not sure how well the group will adjust to having a Paladin tank. I've been in groups where the DPS flat out refused to let me build any concievable aggro before popping all their trinkets and going all out. Of course, when I lose aggro, it's always my fault. :roll: Since Paladin tanks are a relatively new concept for a lot of people, it takes some some getting used to by all parties involved and if something doesn't work, it's usually the Paladin's fault. (I've been yelled at for not healing myself while tanking a boss when the healer DC'ed mid-fight. :roll: )

Luckily, I've gained a reputation for being an above-average tank with a lot of people, so it's relatively easy for me to get groups now.
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Postby cdan » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:14 am

Vanifae wrote:Why are so many paladins afraid to tank, just go do it?


Entering an instance for the very first time as a tank is quite a step. A run lives or dies on the tank and healer being competent. DPSers are two-a-penny, but we're one of the 2 pivotal roles.
I can understand every bit of nervousness people feel tanking things for the first time as I was exactly the same. My first ever run through Shattered Halls started really badly and if it wasn't for the patience and maturity of the group I was with I probably would have fled howling for the healadin spec there and then.
Turned out an exceptionally good run in the end of course and helped make me more confident for other content.

Admittedly I only became a prot-spec post 60 so tanking the Stockades back in the lowbie level days might have helped.
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Postby Warrender » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:42 am

Vanifae wrote:Why are so many paladins afraid to tank, just go do it?


They're afraid because they care about doing a good job. Sounds like my kind of players, actually.
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Postby Vanifae » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:56 am

Warrender wrote:
Vanifae wrote:Why are so many paladins afraid to tank, just go do it?


They're afraid because they care about doing a good job. Sounds like my kind of players, actually.

Very defensive in some cases, I am not saying they shouldn’t be afraid to do a good job but it isn’t rocket science and I like the fact they want to do their best but when it comes down to it, you have to put the rubber to the road. Get in there.

Learn from the failures, really that is what going to make you a better tank. I learned way more from what went wrong as I got acclimated to tanking then I did when things went right. It can be a daunting task to go to a new place but if you stick your knowledge that you know what you are doing, building and keeping threat, optimizing your gear, not breaking crowd control, and communicating it will go fine even if it isn’t the smoothest run in the world.

Besides it was more a comment on how many posts I see where paladins are scared to tank because they think they can’t when they are most likely quite able to. Tanking and healing are the cornerstones of the group, but as with both you only get better by just doing it. I am not saying don’t be afraid but I just find it amusing that so many posts often have that hint of fear of I am going to screw something up.

Christ screw up, it’s fine. I can’t count how many times, I mispulled, or broke the wrong CC, or was way more confident in myself then I should have been. Not every run is going to be some stellar AOE fest where you have to drink because you don’t take enough damage.

Honestly as a tank for a PUG anyway if you keep mobs off the healer they will think you are a god.
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Postby Belarkan » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:07 am

Vanifae wrote:Why are so many paladins afraid to tank, just go do it?


It's well known that out of retnoob, paladins stick to healing.

This being said, going to an instance with players that already doubt on your class not being able to tank put a lot of pressure on you.
Tanking is a bit more than just spamming holy shieldl / consecration / judgement. you have to work with other classes in a different way from when you were holy or retribution, also learn to place yourself to avoid breaking CC and so on.

Also you may have hard time finding a group willing to help you learn tanking. I remember my first mecha normal run where I failed to keep the two invocated elementals on myself. Healer died, group wiped and disbanded.
Next time I tanked it I had a lot of doubt about myself. Now, I'm doing heroic runs of it almost brainless.

Protection paladin are looked at a lot since they're no global agreement on them being tank (blame nihilium and the like about their purpose on pally).
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Postby Odius » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:18 am

I went prot when tBC came out and I pretty much tanked everything up to the 70's instances. When I hit my first 70 instance I was nervous because my roommate(at the time was a prot spec tauren warrior) talked about them like they were the devil. After a while it just becomes second nature. Now I get tells from some of the DPS I run with saying how much it sucks to have to tone down there DPS because the warrior they're running with can't keep everyone aggro'd.
Last edited by Odius on Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sabindeus » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:12 am

Belarkan wrote:
Vanifae wrote:Why are so many paladins afraid to tank, just go do it?


It's well known that out of retnoob, paladins stick to healing.


Is it?

I have to agree with Vanifae on this one. I've been tanking shit in this game since I was level 18, in Beta, before the release day Paladin overhaul, with Seal of Fury (the one that you had to recast every 30s). It just doesn't seem odd to me that I'm tanking now. If anything, the year or so when I was raiding 40 mans and NOT tanking was the odd part of my career.

This is not an attempt at an epeen contest for longest /played. This is about the fundamental role of the Paladin being that of a tank/melee/support character, and the fact that this not new. The whole main healing thing that has gone on so long is the abberation in the system that I feel people should be confused about.

So when I see people going "Omg I tanked hooray" it just makes me roll my eyes... why on earth would this be a special occurrence if we're tanks?
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Postby Barathorn » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:27 am

Yeah I can understand that, I can also understand that level 70 dungeons are a big thing for a class that can tank, but are not percieved as a viable option, perhaps more so than they are for any other class. Thats why a pat on the back and words of encouragement never go amiss. I appreciate a lot of you here had to trail blaze and go it alone when you started as prot specced paladins and I respect you for that, but you have to remember by doing that you opened the door for many more of us, who wanted to give it a go as well and who had an easier time of it because of the work you did prior to us coming on the scene.

Whichever way you look at it, 'Well done' is far more motivational than 'get on with it'. That isn't having a dig at anyone, just my view on it. As I said if it hadn't been for the likes of Vanifae and others, we wouldn't have the easier time we have now because the research has been done for us. I still think it costs nothing to say well done if someone achieves something they were worried about and it gives that person confidence so that they too can spread the word of the protadin.

Just my take on it.

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Postby Lore » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:34 am

I think a lot of budding Tankadins who perhaps haven't had any previous tanking experience wind up with a lot of self-doubt purely to the large "Paladins can't tank" bias that we're still fighting against. Things are certainly getting better, and I think as Tankadins become more popular we'll see a lot less concern, but it's a tough path to follow currently and I can't blame anyone for being excited that they're following it well =)
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Postby Sabindeus » Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:11 am

I guess I'm just a cynic then.
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