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11 point talent "Maybe" Info

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Postby Seraphia » Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:24 pm

Really, viability did him in.
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Postby Riekko » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:02 pm

something retris want for pvp and prots wants for pve..
talented 3% crit reduction?

atleast we wouldnt need to gem defence for entry level raids :P

havent done any calculation about defence rate values in new stuff, but i had the impression its not going to be enough.
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Postby moduspwnens » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:08 pm

Riekko wrote:something retris want for pvp and prots wants for pve..
talented 3% crit reduction?

atleast we wouldnt need to gem defence for entry level raids :P

havent done any calculation about defence rate values in new stuff, but i had the impression its not going to be enough.


As far as we can tell, it'll be most beneficial for us to stack defense past what is needed for uncrittability anyway, as to reach 102.4% combined avoidance and block.
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Postby Riekko » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:20 pm

moduspwnens wrote:As far as we can tell, it'll be most beneficial for us to stack defense past what is needed for uncrittability anyway, as to reach 102.4% combined avoidance and block.

thats why it just might be our new pt11 talent :(
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Postby Seraphia » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:03 am

I see the quick and dirty "slap it in and go" fix just being some kind of earthshock type of attack.



I'm still holding out hope for Holy deathgrip though :P
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Postby Panzerdin » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:28 am

Personally, I'd be hoping less for something 'fun' (you can go pull an inane number of mobs and then cackle insanely as the beat themselves to death - what more do you want?) and more for something along the lines of this:


Improved Viability:
Increases your Base Health to that of a warrior
Increases your Mitigation to that of a warrior
Increases your seal and judgement coefficients to pre-nerf levels
Removes Divine Protection from Forbearance

It'll upset everybody else, but screw them.

EDIT: Removed a random close bold tag that was lying around.
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Postby tuberon » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:32 am

Bubblehearth

Automatically bubblehearths the paladin. This spell grants forbearance and activates your hearthstone cooldown. This may be spellstolen.
Warning: Above poster makes no claims to validity or sanity of said post.

Also... cake.
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Postby majiben » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:03 am

I'm playing around with the following two ideas for our 11 point talent that appeals to both tanking and pvp.

THE LIGHT!!! SHE BURNS!!

Strikes your enemy forcing them to target you and dazes them for X seconds.


Holy snap! (cold snap reworked)

Removes Forbearance debuff, resets the cooldown of all hand spells and reduces the cooldown remaining on Divine Protection and Divine Shield by 1 minute when used. 14 minute cooldown
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Postby Levantine » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:09 am

Warrior Style!:
Instantly transforms your Paladin into a Warrior for 15 seconds
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Postby Io.Draco » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:13 am

Modus I almost had a freaking heart attack thanks to that post

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Postby MonkH » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:40 am

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/1206538 ... arena.html
Re: Why Ret Will Ultimately Fail in 80 Arena
It is a well-thought out post.

The Mortal Strike debuff is a tricky one. We do realize how potent it is in Arenas and we have used it on occasion to give classes or specs a good role in Arenas. But then recently we stopped and asked ourself where we were going with MS. If Ret and Enhancement and Feral and whoever ends up with MS, what's the point really? Shouldn't we just start you in Arenas with healing at 50% and be done with it? This is a topic we're thinking a lot about.

On utility, the designers did agree that if we were going to keep hurting Ret's burst dps, which is a big thing they brought to a team, that we needed to give them some kind of tool to make up for it. We're not sure whether that will be a snare or interrupt or whatever, but the feedback on forums like this one will certainly help determine it. I am surprised to hear you say you don't have a lot of control, becaue I think that is the preception of a lot of classes on the receiving ends of your stuns.

Mana, rage and energy are different mechanics. Yeah, duh, I know, but hear me out. To a class with mana seeing players with a resource that never runs out can seem amazing. But the flip side of that is you start a battle with a full bar. A rogue (or druid) does too, but their bar goes dry in 2-3 hits while yours can last for a long time and pack a lot of hits into a short period. Rage can come back for a warrior (or druid) but they start with none and use a lot of it on every swing. Each of them has their advantages and disadvantages and I think we've done a pretty good job overall of preventing any one of them from dominating either PvP or PvE.

Also, anything named Baconstring should be something we get in the game almost no matter what.


id still like some sorta charge/intervene thing, so much fun for a warrior(and is key to a warriors survivability in arena). and would help for rets survivability in arena

what i really really wouldn't like is a snare
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Postby amadiss » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:20 am

I think Blizzard may be thinking that tanakdins even if "slightly inferior" are viable but Rets may not be viable in arena. So it is them who they'll fix.
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Postby Dantriges » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:22 am

Interrupt or Snare? Make a new talent in the retribution tree or baseline skill.
Interrupts are done by DD in raids most of the time. Helpful yes, important, no. I missed the ability to interrupt in heroics and ZA a bit but nothing to get excited over.
Snares? Unless you count stopping the trolls in ZA from calling in reinforcements as meaningful tanking, it´s more or less useless for us in a tanking role in pve content.
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:44 am

Dantriges wrote:Interrupt or Snare? Make a new talent in the retribution tree or baseline skill.
Interrupts are done by DD in raids most of the time. Helpful yes, important, no. I missed the ability to interrupt in heroics and ZA a bit but nothing to get excited over.
Snares? Unless you count stopping the trolls in ZA from calling in reinforcements as meaningful tanking, it´s more or less useless for us in a tanking role in pve content.


I agree.

Frankly, what chews and spits out prot paladins faster than anything else is incoming magic damage especially from multiple sources.

When the incoming damage is magic and at range, the ONLY mana we get is from SA if we are getting any heals...we get no mana back from sanctuary in this case.

Put mana burn in on top of it and we are toast.

Blizz can say what it likes about the difference between mana and a rage bar, but in PvE, the only time i have seen a warrior who is tanking being rage starved is when they totally outgear the event.

I dont think I have ever seen a bear totally rage starved.

Paladins can easily still be mana starved though.

Frankly, I was hoping that our 11 point talent was going to be one that dealt with at least one of our glaring weaknesses to silence/manaburn/fear/magic damage.

A charge/interrupt would deal with magic damage, but if the magic damage is coming from multiple sources, its only a small part of the answer.

Bang for the buck...I cant see how they can fix so many weaknesses that we still have and that warriors dont with a single talent.

Making it usefull for Ret at the same time...that will prove to be almost impossible.

I love playing my prot paladin, but face it, there are some things that a prot warrior just handles way better than we either do or can.

Our two biggest strengths were AoE and effective crush immunity.

Now that the other tanks have AoE capabilities and there are no crushing blows, I cant really say the prot paladin is that much better at anything.

While the same cannot be said about the warrior.

Charges, stuns, interrupts, and spell reflects all combine to give the warrior a superb amount of control in caster based fights.

Frankly, what I was hoping was going to be our 11 point talent was the ability to block incoming magical damage. It would not be a spell reflect, simply a damage reduction based on our block value.

That way, it would scale with our equipment, and since it was a block, trigger the mana regen from BoSanc and reduce incoming magic damage.

But that would be useless to Ret paladins.

Ah well, one can still hope.
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Postby moduspwnens » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:02 am

If they make it something that clearly helps Ret more than Prot, I'll be very upset.
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