Ret nerfed hard via unannounced hotfix.

[Dianora]

And yet we STILL have no way to deal with stunlocks, kiting, cc'ing, etc that pallys are very vulnerable to.

We HAVE to have that burst to be competitive. We might only get a few seconds to take down a mage or hunter as they're kiting us, unable to get into melee range. We have a very small window of opportunity to burst down that rogue that is stunlocking us into oblivion. We have precious seconds to inflict damage on that warlock that's "lolfeardotdotdotdot" spamming us down as we run around like a headless chicken.

If they want to tone down our burst, fine, as long as they help our glaring weaknesses that make the burst critical for staying somewhat competitive.

A retribution paladin without burst damage might as well spec into Bacon of Light, as Ghostcrawler is fond of saying. All we have left is ham sandwich with bacon.

[Lore]

They lowered ret burst, they didn't remove it.

[Splug]

Hand of Freedom? Divine Shield? Yeah you can't spam them but if you use them properly you kill whatever's causing you the problems anyway.

Also, with enough crit chance, Art of War FOL spam makes me pretty much unstoppable.

I was going to type exactly that, but I screwed up typing my password enough times that Lore got it in before I did.

I'm pretty sure paladins are the only class capable of breaking a stun on themselves without replacing it with another stun (ice block). Complaining about being succeptible to death by stunlock seems... completely wrong.

-Splug

[uke]

Hand of Freedom? Divine Shield? Yeah you can't spam them but if you use them properly you kill whatever's causing you the problems anyway.

Also, with enough crit chance, Art of War FOL spam makes me pretty much unstoppable.

mages can spam their slowing abilities. Rogues don't have to wait 5 minutes to stunlock you. Warlocks can chain fear, and by the time diminishing returns kicks in, you're probably already dead.

Our opponents can literally spam their "don't let the ret pally get an attack off" abilities, while we can counter only once every few minutes or so. And if we can't get them down within that small window, they can go back to kiting/stunlocking/fearing us again with impunity.

The burst is necessary for that reason, making those small windows off opportunity count, as that's all we got.

It's the people who are used to just mashing an IWIN button over and over again in PVP who are crying the hardest of "NERF RET!" The folks who actually have a shred of skill can still easily dismantle a ret pally by preventing him from unloading on them.

We need either a way to 1. break cc's 2. reduce healing (MS effect ?) or 3. quickly close distance on kiters before a reduction in burst won't completely gimp ret in PVP. Coincidentally, warriors already have option 2 and 3.

[Splug]

Can you cast hand of freedom (with appropriate talents) or protection on yourself while stunned to break it, or only other players?

-Splug

[Macha]

This should help warlocks stand up to paladins in particular in PvP.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA *catches breath*

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Splug]

Oh, there's already a reply saying repentance won't break on Righteous Vengeance. I'd assume they'll use the same mechanic as Hungering Cold not breaking on diseases.

-Splug

EDIT: The day is mine, Fenris. The day is mine.

[Fenris]

Repentence will be changed not to break on the new Righteous Vengeance dot.

Murphy failed me...For now...

[Lore]

You guys act like I don't play a Paladin.

Mages can spam their slowing abilities if they stand still, and I can cleanse them. With JotW I haven't had any problems with mana from cleanse spamming.

Rogues don't have to wait 5 minutes to stunlock me the first time, but they do the second time. Unless you let them get out of combat, they have to vanish to get another Cheap Shot in. Survive the first one (you wear plate after all), repentance/heal, and bubble the second one.

While we're at it, this is why I rarely ever use Repentance as a true CC in Arenas. Even if they break it, the second or two you get while they're hitting their trinket is often enough to get into HoJ range. Plus, if they trinket out of Repentance, they can't trinket out of HoJ. This makes Hunters pretty easy; they'll conc blow, you hand of freedom. If they tranq it and conc blow again before you get into range, use Repentance. HoJ, blow wings and trinkets (tranq is on cooldown now), and lay into him. If you don't kill him in the HoJ he might scatter shot, bubble out of it if you got him close.

And RV change is nice.

[Fridmarr]

Can you cast hand of freedom (with appropriate talents) or protection on yourself while stunned to break it, or only other players?

-Splug

Usually BoP will work, but that's a hell of a risky thing to use on yourself with 3 minutes on forbearance. I think there's a talent to hand of freedom that allows it to break stuns now, but someone will have to cast it on you.

[Sabindeus]

You guys act like I don't play a Paladin.

Mages can spam their slowing abilities if they stand still, and I can cleanse them. With JotW I haven't had any problems with mana from cleanse spamming.

Pretty sure each frostbolt applies like 2 debuffs... not sure how you cleanse spam that.

While we're at it, this is why I rarely ever use Repentance as a true CC in Arenas. Even if they break it, the second or two you get while they're hitting their trinket is often enough to get into HoJ range. Plus, if they trinket out of Repentance, they can't trinket out of HoJ. This makes Hunters pretty easy; they'll conc blow, you hand of freedom. If they tranq it and conc blow again before you get into range, use Repentance. HoJ, blow wings and trinkets (tranq is on cooldown now), and lay into him. If you don't kill him in the HoJ he might scatter shot, bubble out of it if you got him close.

So what happens when the hunter is standing on a freezing trap and uses the time it takes for you to trinket it to run away?

And RV change is nice.

I miss the old RV.

[Sabindeus]

Can you cast hand of freedom (with appropriate talents) or protection on yourself while stunned to break it, or only other players?

-Splug

Usually BoP will work, but that's a hell of a risky thing to use on yourself with 3 minutes on forbearance. I think there's a talent to hand of freedom that allows it to break stuns now, but someone will have to cast it on you.

No you can use Freedom to break your own stuns.

[Sabindeus]

Hand of Freedom? Divine Shield? Yeah you can't spam them but if you use them properly you kill whatever's causing you the problems anyway.

Also, with enough crit chance, Art of War FOL spam makes me pretty much unstoppable.

How do you kill a healer/someone being healed by a healer?

[Ruxpin]

Can you cast hand of freedom (with appropriate talents) or protection on yourself while stunned to break it, or only other players?

-Splug

Usually BoP will work, but that's a hell of a risky thing to use on yourself with 3 minutes on forbearance. I think there's a talent to hand of freedom that allows it to break stuns now, but someone will have to cast it on you.

Really? Is that new? I only ever found it worked agains things like conc. shot and hamstring, not stuns. And it's still not self-castable while stunned anyway, right?

[Sabindeus]

Can you cast hand of freedom (with appropriate talents) or protection on yourself while stunned to break it, or only other players?

-Splug

Usually BoP will work, but that's a hell of a risky thing to use on yourself with 3 minutes on forbearance. I think there's a talent to hand of freedom that allows it to break stuns now, but someone will have to cast it on you.

Really? Is that new? I only ever found it worked agains things like conc. shot and hamstring, not stuns. And it's still not self-castable while stunned anyway, right?

Check out Divine Purpose in Ret. It's self-castable while stunned.