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Ret nerfed hard via unannounced hotfix.

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Postby halabar » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:14 pm

Lore wrote:They lowered ret burst, they didn't remove it.


Give them time, they will.
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Postby halabar » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:23 pm

Kayoto wrote:I knew it was coming, but meh. Oh well.

Serious question: Were Ret Paladins still 3-shotting people at 80 (people in full resilience gear, even the crafted set, not PVE gear)?

I thought I had heard that it wasn't nearly as imbalanced at 80, and if that's the case, I really hope it doesn't make ret paladins terrible again in PVP in Wrath. :/


They just did. When scaling kicks in, Ret will suck hard again, and it will be months before they fix it.

With the reduction to Judgements of Light and Wisdom by 50%, and the nerfage to DS, I really don't see a reason to stay Ret. Prot is actually more viable now.

What really pisses me off is that folks QQ and we are nerfed via hotfixes, while the things that are promised to us to compensate will come "in the future" Yeah, fat F*ing chance. We'll see that shit in patch 3.6.

From what I am hearing, Ret is now back to 2.4.3 levels. Divine Storm will still kill a Helboar fast, but sucks against something that doesn't have an armour debuff on it.

You have to realize that there is another hidden nerf here. With changing DS to physical damage, it also looses any benefit from anything that boosts Holy damage. So there is a greater nerf here.

As soon as I can gather more prot gear, it's back to prot for me. Screw ret.

Hell, if I didn't need a miner to support my engineer hunter, I'd just delete my pally. I'm sick of this shit.
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Postby Drathian » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:42 pm

halabar wrote:
Kayoto wrote:I knew it was coming, but meh. Oh well.

Serious question: Were Ret Paladins still 3-shotting people at 80 (people in full resilience gear, even the crafted set, not PVE gear)?

I thought I had heard that it wasn't nearly as imbalanced at 80, and if that's the case, I really hope it doesn't make ret paladins terrible again in PVP in Wrath. :/


They just did. When scaling kicks in, Ret will suck hard again, and it will be months before they fix it.

With the reduction to Judgements of Light and Wisdom by 50%, and the nerfage to DS, I really don't see a reason to stay Ret. Prot is actually more viable now.

What really pisses me off is that folks QQ and we are nerfed via hotfixes, while the things that are promised to us to compensate will come "in the future" Yeah, fat F*ing chance. We'll see that shit in patch 3.6.

From what I am hearing, Ret is now back to 2.4.3 levels. Divine Storm will still kill a Helboar fast, but sucks against something that doesn't have an armour debuff on it.

You have to realize that there is another hidden nerf here. With changing DS to physical damage, it also looses any benefit from anything that boosts Holy damage. So there is a greater nerf here.

As soon as I can gather more prot gear, it's back to prot for me. Screw ret.

Hell, if I didn't need a miner to support my engineer hunter, I'd just delete my pally. I'm sick of this shit.


I've seen a lot of the bolded part in this thread.

Divine Storm as physical damage did not gut the Retribution tree. It may amount to 50% less damage against warriors, but against many classes it's considerably less.

As far as PvE goes, it isn't even that bad on a fully debuffed boss.

So i mean, really, go out and play the spec. It isn't that bad. All the Ret pallies I knew totally saw it coming, all of them barely notice it in PvE.

All of them are still wrecking noobs all over the place in PvP, but now the good players have a chance at them because of the reduced burst.
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Postby Sabindeus » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:43 pm

Drathian wrote:All of them are still wrecking noobs all over the place in PvP, but now the good players have a chance at them because of the reduced burst.


But do THEY have a chance at the good players?

I'm gonna go with no.
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Postby twinkfist » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:45 pm

i was raiding after 12pm est..not sure when hot-fix went into effect...but on akama (yeah, i know..it's a joke), but i was number on the dps and damage chart at around 2500 dps and that's because i forgot to hit a couple buttons cause the wife was talking to me.

needless to say, i wouldn't be surprised if more "nerf's" happen...that being said, i wouldn't be that pissed. it's more of a challenge that way.
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Postby Drathian » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:45 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
Drathian wrote:All of them are still wrecking noobs all over the place in PvP, but now the good players have a chance at them because of the reduced burst.


But do THEY have a chance at the good players?

I'm gonna go with no.


I'm gonna go with yes. Now the good players have a chance, instead of just getting steamrolled because Ret is OP. And now Ret has a chance instead of a gaurentee.
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Postby Sabindeus » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:53 pm

Drathian wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
Drathian wrote:All of them are still wrecking noobs all over the place in PvP, but now the good players have a chance at them because of the reduced burst.


But do THEY have a chance at the good players?

I'm gonna go with no.


I'm gonna go with yes. Now the good players have a chance, instead of just getting steamrolled because Ret is OP. And now Ret has a chance instead of a gaurentee.


How do you kill people being healed as Ret, and how do you deal with being chain snared/rooted/HoFdispelled?
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Postby Drathian » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:56 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
Drathian wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
Drathian wrote:All of them are still wrecking noobs all over the place in PvP, but now the good players have a chance at them because of the reduced burst.


But do THEY have a chance at the good players?

I'm gonna go with no.


I'm gonna go with yes. Now the good players have a chance, instead of just getting steamrolled because Ret is OP. And now Ret has a chance instead of a gaurentee.


How do you kill people being healed as Ret, and how do you deal with being chain snared/rooted/HoFdispelled?


The same way we dealt with it before, just while dealing 1k to 2k less damage every 10 seconds.
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Postby Khayne » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:04 pm

I can live with the divine storm nerf i guess, but i am now worried about the scaling in expansion. I mean now i rely mostly on my burst. JoJ, CS,DS, (Fol myself if AoW here in the dead time, or if i´m standing in an zergfest drop concecrate), repeat dps moves unless i get him to HoW range and then use that to finish him.

However my reliance here is that i can

a)surprise him, i love hiding behind terrain items to get JoJ on a passer by and get on his skin before he knows i´m even there. In Arenas i doubt i´ll have this luxury that i enjoy in BG´s (the tank at iceblood chokepoint is excellent cover what to stand behind :) )

b)interrupt him with repentance, HoJ or torrent between 2 bursts

and while doing those, i need to counter their slows (cleanse and HoF work reasonably well, haven´t been kited that badly yet) and CC, which is trinket and DS.

problem is that i´m worried that once people gear up at lvl 80 i wont be able to kill healers since killing will take more time, so my single repentance or such interrupt wont be enough.

Or that if i´m fighting CC class like warlock, now i can stop one of his fears but if the fight prolongs i once again run out of ways to stop him from CCíng me to hell.

Then again at right now, i´m still feeling pretty good about ret so i guess i´ll just hope for the best, fear for the worst now.

Special thanks to all those allies that have tried to outrun me while having JoJ on them tonight. If it makes you feel any better, there has been a ton of you.

Srsly, there´s like 50% chance that if i JoJ a passing by ally, he will not dismount and will try to just run past me. Even if i´ve been smacking on his ass for a few hits they still wont dismount.

Wish there was a "Sickly Herd" achievment for killing 100 allies before they dismount, i think i´d get that by this weeks end :) .
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Postby fafhrd » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:10 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
Drathian wrote:All of them are still wrecking noobs all over the place in PvP, but now the good players have a chance at them because of the reduced burst.


But do THEY have a chance at the good players?

I'm gonna go with no.


If their only chance against good players was divine storm's damage being holy, then the ret pally class has more serious issues you should be trying to get fixed, instead of slashing wrists over one ability being brought down to sensible levels of power.
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Postby Sabindeus » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:13 pm

fafhrd wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
Drathian wrote:All of them are still wrecking noobs all over the place in PvP, but now the good players have a chance at them because of the reduced burst.


But do THEY have a chance at the good players?

I'm gonna go with no.


If their only chance against good players was divine storm's damage being holy, then the ret pally class has more serious issues you should be trying to get fixed, instead of slashing wrists over one ability being brought down to sensible levels of power.


Well yeah, no shit. There have been at least 5 posts per week on the beta forums about the issues with Ret in PVP that tend to be buried under all the QQ about how OP they are.
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Postby Sabindeus » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:14 pm

Drathian wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
Drathian wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
Drathian wrote:All of them are still wrecking noobs all over the place in PvP, but now the good players have a chance at them because of the reduced burst.


But do THEY have a chance at the good players?

I'm gonna go with no.


I'm gonna go with yes. Now the good players have a chance, instead of just getting steamrolled because Ret is OP. And now Ret has a chance instead of a gaurentee.


How do you kill people being healed as Ret, and how do you deal with being chain snared/rooted/HoFdispelled?


The same way we dealt with it before, just while dealing 1k to 2k less damage every 10 seconds.


I am pretty sure Ret Paladins got heavily rocked in Arenas against players that don't suck pre-3.0. So by "dealt with it before" do you mean "lose"?
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Postby Drathian » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:20 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
Drathian wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
Drathian wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
Drathian wrote:All of them are still wrecking noobs all over the place in PvP, but now the good players have a chance at them because of the reduced burst.


But do THEY have a chance at the good players?

I'm gonna go with no.


I'm gonna go with yes. Now the good players have a chance, instead of just getting steamrolled because Ret is OP. And now Ret has a chance instead of a gaurentee.


How do you kill people being healed as Ret, and how do you deal with being chain snared/rooted/HoFdispelled?


The same way we dealt with it before, just while dealing 1k to 2k less damage every 10 seconds.


I am pretty sure Ret Paladins got heavily rocked in Arenas against players that don't suck pre-3.0. So by "dealt with it before" do you mean "lose"?


No, I meant the same way we dealt with it before the nerf.

To clarify, I meant the same way we dealt with it between 3.0.2 and the nerf.

It's post nerf, I'm doing great in Arena's and BG's, and I'm just playing around with little resilience.

My friends, who are die-hard Rets in full S4, are still impressed with Ret even after the nerf. They don't have a problem with dieing to other well-geared PvP'ers. They can still win against a large variety of team make-ups up, just not EVERY single time.

I'm happy, my friends are happy, and we all saw the burst nerf coming. I see people in Trade advertising, looking for a Ret pally parter in XversusX arenas. I see people wanting Ret's to join their premades. I see raids and heroics advertising for Ret paladins.

All after the nerf! This is being blown out of proportion and I won't post in here again.
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Postby caboom » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:30 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
caboom wrote:
Levantine wrote:That still do more than Command?


i doubt it if u have haste gear, since command scales with haste now.


how does command scale with haste now? as far as I know, nothing changed.


retpaladin.com ppl are saying it does, and there is a long thread there about it. :P
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Postby Seraphia » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:47 pm

Sarkan-ZdC wrote:from wowinsider.com:

Update: I am also told that they may have reduced the health/mana returned from Judgment of Light and Judgment of Wisdom by 50%, and reduced the damage of Judgment of Command by 25%. There still isn't a blue post that I can find about any of this, so it's hard to confirm -- can anyone confirm/deny the Judgment changes?


:(


On Live atm, Judge and Seal of Light, seem to do half of their listed values. :( Seal Heals for 227, listed value of 424. Hope that's just a bug or something... :?

Seal of Wisdom doesn't seem to be changed, Judge of Wisdom is doing less then it's listed value, but not halved. I was getting roughly 95'ish back from Judge of Wisdom, it's listed at 135'ish.

Not Ret, so no SoCommand, sorry.
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