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TPS too high? -edit- JoL gives a few thousand TPS!

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Postby knaughty » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:25 pm

PsiVen wrote:I wasn't watching closely but my threat seemed to be around 2.2k TPS in Sunwell tonight (70). Beta at 80 my threat is some ridiculous amount.


I'm stating to think it might be JoL threat.

What were you judging?
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Postby Consecrator » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:38 pm

I have been using JOW, are we saying that JOL will give us more threat then? Will try it out this week but just curious.
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Postby knaughty » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:13 pm

Consecrator wrote:I have been using JOW, are we saying that JOL will give us more threat then? Will try it out this week but just curious.

I've no idea, it's just something that occurred to me as a possibility.

I've since had an update from the MT - he actually saw me hit 6000 TPS on Felmyst at one point, while not tanking.

I was only using JoL because the ret pally wanted to judge mana for the extra returns.

The other thing that makes me think it might be heal-aggro was the fact I was second on threat on the second twin (until the raid switched targets and DPS shot up to chase ranged tank).
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Postby Sabindeus » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:20 pm

Dear Sir or Madam,

Judgement of Light is not correctly reporting overhealing. If you are using a mod to estimate threat that is counting your JoL heals as threat, then it will be Wrong.

Furthermore, if you have a Ret Pally, he should be the one doing JoL, as his JoL heals will be superior to yours as Prot. If he's hitting your mob, then he'll get the benefit of JoW too, NOT THAT HE NEEDS IT.
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Postby knaughty » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:27 pm

Sabindeus wrote:Judgement of Light is not correctly reporting overhealing. If you are using a mod to estimate threat that is counting your JoL heals as threat, then it will be Wrong.

I believe that Omen uses the threat numbers that WoW itself uses, so it can't be wrong?

And the retarded threat numbers Omen seems to post seem to be correct, because yeah.. I kinda peel mobs off the other tanks.

Knaughty wrote:I've since had an update from the MT - he actually saw me hit 6000 TPS on Felmyst at one point, while not tanking.


Well, more accurately: Not tanking until shortly after that, when I pulled Felmyst off the MT and had to bubble

=edit=

And it's worth noting that the two bosses I had the biggest threat issues on were Felmyst and Twins, where there's a ton of raid damage, and thus perhaps the JoL heals aren't all pure overheal - they might be working quite well.

Where is JoL heal threat supposed to go?
Last edited by knaughty on Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sabindeus » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:30 pm

Knaughty wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:Judgement of Light is not correctly reporting overhealing. If you are using a mod to estimate threat that is counting your JoL heals as threat, then it will be Wrong.

I believe that Omen uses the threat numbers that WoW itself uses, so it can't be wrong?

And the retarded threat numbers Omen seems to post seem to be correct, because yeah.. I kinda peel mobs off the other tanks.


I don't know how they rewrote Omen, but since the numbers in the combat log are being misreported by the client, it's possible the numbers coming through the threat API could also be misreported. Or JoL heals could just be causing threat when they shouldn't be.

You peeling mobs off of other tanks is nothing special.
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Postby Sabindeus » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:31 pm

If you had JoL up and pulled Felmyst off of his tank without hitting him at all then I'd agree there's likely something horribly dysfunctional with JoL.
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Postby PsiVen » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:34 pm

I was using JoW not JoL. Seems plausible that JoL threat is going to the paladin but in that case I expect that our holy paladin would have been pulling aggro all night...

Omen3 uses the same threat API that the default interface uses to generate the "you're pulling aggro now" messages and such. If there's a problem it's most likely not with the addon.
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Postby knaughty » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:35 pm

Sabindeus wrote:If you had JoL up and pulled Felmyst off of his tank without hitting him at all then I'd agree there's likely something horribly dysfunctional with JoL.


Oh no, I was merrily beating away at the boss, 5-stack of SoV, judging on CD, etc, etc.

I'm not saying it's special, but it's certainly a major change, and not something I was expecting. Reports at 80 are that we do less threat as the MT than other tanks. I'm doing (lots) more threat as an OT than the MT for some fights. I've certainly never done enough threat as OT to peel ever before.

If I can work out why, I could maybe stop doing it...
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Postby knaughty » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:36 pm

PsiVen wrote:I was using JoW not JoL. Seems plausible that JoL threat is going to the paladin but in that case I expect that our holy paladin would have been pulling aggro all night...


Doesn't RF buff healing threat?
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Postby knaughty » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:38 pm

Sabindeus wrote:Furthermore, if you have a Ret Pally, he should be the one doing JoL, as his JoL heals will be superior to yours as Prot.

Anyone have a data point for Sunwell geared ret-pally JoL procs?

My prot-spec ones were 500 each, I think.
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Postby Norrath » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:00 pm

Knaughty wrote:
PsiVen wrote:I was using JoW not JoL. Seems plausible that JoL threat is going to the paladin but in that case I expect that our holy paladin would have been pulling aggro all night...


Doesn't RF buff healing threat?

Well, it does, but our healing threat is -- or at least used to be -- half that of other healers. We're talking .665 compared to .5 with RF up. It's some (and more than other healers), but even with 500ish heals every second, we're talking ~300 TPS. We might be hitting a little more on average, but 6000 TPS?
Last edited by Norrath on Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sabindeus » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:01 pm

Knaughty wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:Furthermore, if you have a Ret Pally, he should be the one doing JoL, as his JoL heals will be superior to yours as Prot.

Anyone have a data point for Sunwell geared ret-pally JoL procs?

My prot-spec ones were 500 each, I think.


There's no way your Ret pally could be doing less. Remember, it scales based on AP and SP. So in order for the Ret Pally to be doing less, he'd have to have AP * 1.15 < Your AP + 0.15 * Your Sta
Which is unlikely.
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Postby Sabindeus » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:02 pm

Norrath wrote:
Knaughty wrote:
PsiVen wrote:I was using JoW not JoL. Seems plausible that JoL threat is going to the paladin but in that case I expect that our holy paladin would have been pulling aggro all night...


Doesn't RF buff healing threat?

Well, it does, but our healing threat is -- or at least used to be -- half that of other healers. We're talking .665 compared to .5 with RF up. It's some (and more than other healers), but even with 500ish heals every second, we're talking ~300 TPS. We might be hitting a little more on average, but 6000 TPS?


Two things:

1. RF no longer affects threat from holy spells, just holy damage
2. JoL never had the same threat modifier as Holy Light and Flash of Light. It did full out normal healing threat (1 pt healed = 0.5 threat divided by # mobs)
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Postby Norrath » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:04 pm

Sabindeus wrote:Two things:

1. RF no longer affects threat from holy spells, just holy damage
2. JoL never had the same threat modifier as Holy Light and Flash of Light. It did full out normal healing threat (1 pt healed = 0.5 threat divided by # mobs)

Ah. Thanks.
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