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How to deal with...

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How to deal with...

Postby Belmi » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:13 am

IDIOTS! Last night I had a bad experience with a horribly stupid tank and healer, normally I would have just kicked them, but they were brought in right in the middle of our raid and everybody just wanted to keep going :x .

Basically, I had recently recruited a warrior tank who was half epic and supposedly "had raid experience and knew what she was doing", so I brought her into the raid. I also pug'd a random holydin. It seemed as if we would have an easy day, but once we got started...the massacre began.

We wiped once clearing trash from Curator to Illhoof, and on 5 other pulls had half of the party die. There was not one pull that someone did not die on.

It was 95% the warrior and hoyldins fault.

The holydin was at 1800 healing, and was only 3% above our 1000 healing resto shammy on the charts (the shammy actually passed him once). and the warrior could not hold threat to save her life, nor would she check for healer mana\give warning before she randomly pulled. She didn't even mark or know about the mobs! (she tried to have me tank the spell immune wyrms, and when I told her they were spell immune she said so?, and that I should just melee tank them :lol: , I love noobs)

Now here is the bad part, since I only have 9.8k hp unbuffed (yes i know it needs to go up A LOT), they would not stop giving me shit. They said I couldn't tank, was horrible, and didn't know how to play, yet for some reason, when I took charge and took over the mt spot, nobody died, nobody pulled. They STILL wouldn't stop giving me shit. The holydin told me how he got his 12k hp tank set in 3 days (which had no avoidance\he doesn't realise there isn't a set drop rate), and they both said I didn't know how to play still. I lived longer then the warrior even with my 3k less hp (learn to shieldblock?).

We finally get to illhoof when my really good warrior friend logs on, so I decide to have him come tank illhoof since he doesn't suck. Now out of the kindness of my heart I let the retarded warrior stay, to try and be nice. She flips out about how we won't be able to do it with 3 tanks and we need to drop me for another dps. I ask her how she will tank all the imps and kil'rek, she keeps arguing about nothing and never answers me.

We finally agree to just go and when we are telling the strat to our new raiders, the holydin is like "GOOO! GO GO GO GO GO!!! GOOOOOOOO!" and won't stfu, and then the stupid warrior randomly runs in and pulls illhoof. We wipe of course and she tries to blame me even though I tanked Illhoof, Kil'rek, AND about 30 imps since our lock died for a solid 90 seconds with only one healer up, and she died in like 8 seconds.

After that she says "You're immature and a stupid noob who can't play or gear" and drops party...oh sweet irony...

Basically, if you can't play for shit don't tell ME i can't play, I know how to play my class :twisted:. Frankly I don't care if good people try to show me how to do something i do wrong, but don't give me shit if you play like it.

So any advice on what I should do about situations like this? I plan to just start a zero tolerance policy for things like this, even if it holds the raid up. it's better than not downing a boss for 2 hours, and paying a 20g repair bill, but my guild might not like that, what do you think I should do?

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the warrior was promptly kicked after she dropped party for disrespectin the gm, being an asshole in general
Last edited by Belmi on Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Andox » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:22 am

Well, if that Warrior joined our guild, I wouldn't hide the fact that she didn't do her job. Would be some serious discussion after the raid in /r or on VT, I prefer VT. After that it would be a classic kick or a warning. Nothing you can do with the Paladin I think, if I got it right he was just a random, right?

Well. If you isn't a officer, you should tell this to the CL/GM. This is serious problems. Not being able to pull right/watch mana is basic stuff, we learned that in Ramparts. Not being able to do that in a raid is epic fail. If you are a officer, use your powah :twisted:, no but seriously. You should give him a warning for that kind of behavoiur. It isni't accepted in guilds.
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Postby guillex » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:24 am

First off, kick the tank from guild. If she's not going to be open to learning how other tanks play, nor how HER CLASS IS SUPPOSED TO WORK, then she's just going to drag everyone down.

Secondly, talk to your guild about what happened. Get everyone's input. If they were behind you during the raid, then you shouldn't have a problem. But sometimes people have different opinions about things... So get all the feedback that you can.
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Postby ulushnar » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:29 am

Technically, someone who shows up to one raid before being kicked from their guild has "raid experience". Your King O' Tanks (Officer, Rep, whatever) should have quizzed the person more thoroughly, especially for as critical a role as tank.
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Postby Belmi » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:18 am

It is my guild lol, and you are right that I should have quizzed her more. We REALLY need tanks, and she seemed good from what I asked her. Basically, I now know to quiz more of the basic stuff and not assume people have some intelligence :P lol
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Postby Barathorn » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:32 am

Belmi wrote:It is my guild lol, and you are right that I should have quizzed her more. We REALLY need tanks, and she seemed good from what I asked her. Basically, I now know to quiz more of the basic stuff and not assume people have some intelligence :P lol


If you have another character, do a run with 4 Guild members and the potential recruit prior to the guild invite, gives you an insight into their skill level and understanding and not just their gear and saves any idiots jumping onboard.
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Postby Khayne » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:58 am

If you have another character, do a run with 4 Guild members and the potential recruit prior to the guild invite, gives you an insight into their skill level and understanding and not just their gear and saves any idiots jumping onboard.


This. Doesn´t even need to be 4 guildies, just as long as you´re there.

Before i made my paladin my main i used to be a warlock class lead in my guild. Was great to be the tank in group and see how the guy does hold his CC, does his dps, etc. etc. Should work good otherway around too. Even better was to not tell him i were the person who was going to choose if he gets invite or not so i could see him more natural :P .

There´s no better way to know how someone plays than to play with him, but it´s much nicer if you notice he sucks in a heroic instance than if you´d need to call off a raid because he is in one of critical spots and you dont got replacement online.
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Postby Lousiana » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:21 am

Why all this secret stuff.

Just tell them next time they have to run a trial in a heroic with you.

Chose the heroic from what you want to see from them.
A Karazhan MT/OT should not have problems leading a heroic.


If the trial goes well he is invited into the guild on a trial-membership for 4 weeks.

1st two weeks - no loot other than it would have been sharded
2nd two weeks - loot as other members of the guild as well.

After 4 weeks he is ranked up to raider or gkicked (or earlier for the latter)

Apply this rule to anyone who wants to join the guild. Make it public in terms of: If you have a forum for applications, that is the place to put it. If not just tell them clearly at the start of talks about applying what you expect from them and how your system from trial to raidmember works.

After each run in those 4 weeks check back with your officers or with players of the same class to see how the recruit performs. Make sure you tell him your concerns and where he needs to evolve in terms of skill, awareness, habit, behaviour or gear.

All this mixed together will give you a good picture about what the recruits are like.
Sometimes you chose than even a poorly geared recruit over one that ist top nodge because you have the feeling that the other recruit has more potential to evolve or fits more into your guild.

Gear is not everything in this game. Everyone can get the SSO - Shield but that doesn't mean they are nice skillful dedicated guys.



Edit:

This is good for your existing guild and your members as well.

1. They see that you had some thoughts about how and whom to recruit.
2. They are challenged to be at their best when you are actually in the process of recruiting - who wants to join a guild that fails epicaly on your trial run because they don't care too much about running heroics.
3. Involving them in making decissions in regards to whom you recruit and who has to go makes them feel good because they see that you appreciate their opinions. It shows your souveranity when you encourage them ot participate in this process.
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Postby davidred » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:38 pm

I run a lot of PUGs for Heroics & Kara and if anybody acted like an asshat they'd get the boot. Wouldn't matter what gear they had or what guild they were from. If you can't play nice then you're not in my raid.
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Postby VikrumthePally » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:27 am

Lousiana wrote:Why all this secret stuff.

Just tell them next time they have to run a trial in a heroic with you.

Chose the heroic from what you want to see from them.
A Karazhan MT/OT should not have problems leading a heroic.


If the trial goes well he is invited into the guild on a trial-membership for 4 weeks.

1st two weeks - no loot other than it would have been sharded
2nd two weeks - loot as other members of the guild as well.

After 4 weeks he is ranked up to raider or gkicked (or earlier for the latter)

Apply this rule to anyone who wants to join the guild. Make it public in terms of: If you have a forum for applications, that is the place to put it. If not just tell them clearly at the start of talks about applying what you expect from them and how your system from trial to raidmember works.

After each run in those 4 weeks check back with your officers or with players of the same class to see how the recruit performs. Make sure you tell him your concerns and where he needs to evolve in terms of skill, awareness, habit, behaviour or gear.

All this mixed together will give you a good picture about what the recruits are like.
Sometimes you chose than even a poorly geared recruit over one that ist top nodge because you have the feeling that the other recruit has more potential to evolve or fits more into your guild.

Gear is not everything in this game. Everyone can get the SSO - Shield but that doesn't mean they are nice skillful dedicated guys.



Edit:

This is good for your existing guild and your members as well.

1. They see that you had some thoughts about how and whom to recruit.
2. They are challenged to be at their best when you are actually in the process of recruiting - who wants to join a guild that fails epicaly on your trial run because they don't care too much about running heroics.
3. Involving them in making decissions in regards to whom you recruit and who has to go makes them feel good because they see that you appreciate their opinions. It shows your souveranity when you encourage them ot participate in this process.


Sounds like old school EQ tactics to me. And I can honestly say this works. We are about to get a solid 10-15 man group going to slaughter LK and you better believe that the heroics we've been carrying people through for the last 3 months is this exactly.

World of Warcraft is made up of 98% of morons. That is all there is to it. Just screen the people you bring. One person can kill a raid. Good luck in the future. Keep up that zero tolerance policy. I know we do.
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