Why take a Tankadin over a Protection Warrior?

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Postby Ariosto » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:23 am

Wow! Lots of responses. Thanks for all the information. A lot of my original question was based somewhat on my guild. We're all quickly approaching raiding level (the GM and 3 tanks are already at that level) and we're talking about raiding a little. I asked if I would have a shot at Tanking some raids and the answer was something like, "You might get a chance to tank some content but we already have 3 great tanks besides you." My GM is a really great guy, mostly because he's just a straight-shooter and I appreciate that.

So for the time being I'm trying out Ret as I love PvP and we basically only have pallies in our guild who tank, only one other retadin.

Anyway, I'll continue to read here as I love tanking and y'all are a great bunch of people.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:36 am

Ariosto wrote:I asked if I would have a shot at Tanking some raids and the answer was something like, "You might get a chance to tank some content but we already have 3 great tanks besides you." My GM is a really great guy, mostly because he's just a straight-shooter and I appreciate that.

So for the time being I'm trying out Ret as I love PvP and we basically only have pallies in our guild who tank, only one other retadin.



Well, in your situation I'd stay Ret and collect any tanking gear that gets thrown your way. With 3 tanks already in the rotation it will probably be tough for you to break through on anything that doesn't specifically favor a Paladin.
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Postby Ariosto » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:30 pm

LOL. Funny you should say that because one is a Warrior tank the other two (one lvl 70 one lvl 60) are Tankadins. I really think Ret is my best bet to getting in on some raids. I'd be another buff slot, do some decent DPS (not tops but decent) and be fairly low maintenance with self heals. I'd spec holy but that's completely unattractive to me, I have no idea why.
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Postby Amirya » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:03 pm

Because you have three main buttons to push, with a few extra depending on how you do Holy spec.

Those three being:

Cleanse, Big Heal, and Quick OMFG I Need A Buffer Just In Case Heal
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Postby Ariosto » Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:32 am

LOL. Well, I'm back to Prot after a whopping 3 days as Ret. The reasons are actually very simple: I was getting slaughtered by regular mobs and going oom all the time.

PvP really started to get to me too, I felt like I was playing with a bunch of immature pre-teens (nothing wrong with being young in age, but these particular teenies were being outstandingly immature).

So I've moved into the Outlands for the first time in my life and realized quickly that while I could demolish things in Azeroth easily, everything in outlands is much tougher. Can't wait to start doing instances in Outland.
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Postby JUSTISE » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:37 pm

Reasons Pally Tanks > Warriors/Druids: Warriors/Druids can't really tank. Only a select few can.

Reasons for having a tank in any situation is because he/she is supposed to be taking most possible sources of damage, and keeping most of it off of the raid (especially healers). Pally tanks seem to do that the best.

I personally am not fond of CC, and I am sure most people that run stuff are not in the mood to have every mob but 1 CC'd, and blowing things up 1 at a time. It's just a waste of everyone's time.

Keeping people alive. Reasons Warriors/Druids suck is inability to tank multiple mobs at once. Warriors are only good for 1 mob, and rare cases will you find one that is capable of holding aggro on more than 1 successfully w/out healers getting heal aggro on the 2nd mob. Druids, is roughly the same.

Lots of people are still stuck in the stone ages. Back then prot pallys did not really exist because of gearing/talent trees. Times have changed.

Only reason I see that having a druid or warrior tank would be useful is if they are OTing. Pallys make horrible OTs because of how they work. Warriors n druids can get threat just whacking a mob, so they have a increasing gain on TPS. Pallys have it opposite.


I am also pretty certain most warriors and druids do not get complimented on their tanking. Pallys on the other hand, make runs ezmode and if geared enough, people will see what they been missing out on all this time. Smooth fast runs, raid kept safe because low chances of loose mobs. Greatly reduces chance of failure/wipes and decreases the time needed to run things. Warriors n druids just can't top that.


One can conduct a pretty simple test.

Geared/Well played prot pally tank Heroic SH vs a Geared/Well played prot warrior. It should explain it all.
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Postby Uthadanin » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:04 pm

I say in this day and age besides gimmick fights that all tanking classes can tank anything.

I tank Lurker, Hydross nature phase, even annoying pesky silencing bosses like maiden.

My guild is in t5 progression (I know we are nubz :o) and I am considered equal with all warrior tanks (even though I have the highest buffed raid health)

Threat really isn't an issue, I often pull gruul off of our warrior MT even with her getting misdirects. Paladins do offer a reasonable sustained dps, and with mana pots and a shadow priest can go all out and often pull off of an equally geared warrior tank (or at least in my case).
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Postby Wyleai » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:14 pm

moduspwnens wrote:keep in mind that you're on a Prot Paladin forum. Not to say these responses aren't valuable, but you might get a less biased answer at the Tankspot forums.


Not less biased, simply biased in the other direction.
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Postby moduspwnens » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:52 pm

Wyleai wrote:
moduspwnens wrote:keep in mind that you're on a Prot Paladin forum. Not to say these responses aren't valuable, but you might get a less biased answer at the Tankspot forums.


Not less biased, simply biased in the other direction.


Well, Tankspot is for all tanks, while this spot is for Tankadins.
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Postby Worldie » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:54 pm

Tankspot however got a heavy warrior majority.

There's a reason if the moderators close quite quickly the class vs class topics, since 90% of the times they end in warriors saying paladins and druids are shit, and druids and paladins saying warriors are the shit.

Sad but true.

Most of the tankspot readers generally got a proper idea of the 3(4) tank classes and know what to expect from each of them. But exactly like we got "noob" tankadins which are in the learning process who read maintankadin, they as well got "noob" warriors who got still the "we r the omni-MT" bias.
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Postby JUSTISE » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:27 pm

Uthadanin wrote:Threat really isn't an issue, I often pull gruul off of our warrior MT even with her getting misdirects. Paladins do offer a reasonable sustained dps, and with mana pots and a shadow priest can go all out and often pull off of an equally geared warrior tank (or at least in my case).


Wait, how do u pull a mob off of the warrior once it has aggro? I find it extremely hard to build threat once the mob does not atk me cuz a portion of my tps comes from me getting damaged and receiving heals. Does your warrior suck at tps r something?

I did some tests w/ my tps, and if I am atking all out on a mob w/out taking considerable dmg and getting healed, my tps is about 30-40% less than how much I would normally be doing. I normally avg 800-1000 tps tanking heroic trash mobs, and my test resulted in avg 500-600tps on a regular mob in SMV that hardly hurts me and no heals on me. So say our gear is about the same and your threat generation is roughly the same, the warrior that tanks gruuls for you guys would be doing a lot less than 500tps for you to overcome his/her threat?
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Postby Uthadanin » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:57 pm

JUSTISE wrote:
Uthadanin wrote:Threat really isn't an issue, I often pull gruul off of our warrior MT even with her getting misdirects. Paladins do offer a reasonable sustained dps, and with mana pots and a shadow priest can go all out and often pull off of an equally geared warrior tank (or at least in my case).


Wait, how do u pull a mob off of the warrior once it has aggro? I find it extremely hard to build threat once the mob does not atk me cuz a portion of my tps comes from me getting damaged and receiving heals. Does your warrior suck at tps r something?

I did some tests w/ my tps, and if I am atking all out on a mob w/out taking considerable dmg and getting healed, my tps is about 30-40% less than how much I would normally be doing. I normally avg 800-1000 tps tanking heroic trash mobs, and my test resulted in avg 500-600tps on a regular mob in SMV that hardly hurts me and no heals on me. So say our gear is about the same and your threat generation is roughly the same, the warrior that tanks gruuls for you guys would be doing a lot less than 500tps for you to overcome his/her threat?



Except I'm receiving damage through hateful strikes and I intentionally stand in cave ins. I pop wings and maintain 5 stacks of vengeance throughout the fight, while also religously drinking mana pots. We have enough melee dps where if I weren't on top of my threat game than one of them would be eating the hateful strikes. Also we are both originally starting off with 1 misdirect (mines 20 seconds after hers) and after that point i'm normally sitting at 100%-105% threat and can maintain that. I wear my threat sheild as well. 440 spell damage.
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Postby caboom » Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:27 pm

JUSTISE wrote:Wait, how do u pull a mob off of the warrior once it has aggro? I find it extremely hard to build threat once the mob does not atk me cuz a portion of my tps comes from me getting damaged and receiving heals. Does your warrior suck at tps r something?


run far away and taunt :D
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Postby Kelaan » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:59 pm

Uthadanin wrote:Except I'm receiving damage through hateful strikes and I intentionally stand in cave ins. I pop wings and maintain 5 stacks of vengeance throughout the fight, while also religously drinking mana pots.


If you can get in a group with a shadow priest, and/or the hunters (3% stacking FI procs!), too, your mana return would be even better. Still, as Uth said -- hateful strikes and cave-ins at Gruul are a GREAT source of damage. ;) SPriest would just reduce the number of potions you need to drink.
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Postby Frickit » Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:02 am

warriors are crushable...they just avoid most crushes with the 2 shield block charges...but definitely not all.

Paladins never get crushed (ideally). And thats it...thats what makes me a more reliable tank. Whatever damage I take is consistent and easy to heal. I see other classes frequently take a spike and wipe(mostly due to sudden crushings.)

other than all that, we do awesome threat and we have ranged abilities and with spiritual attunement we can fight forever. Whats not to love?
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