Gear Reset Makes Me Angry...

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Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:04 pm

Ulushnar wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:
Skwigelf wrote:Because when I go into Northrend with my lv68 Death Knight wearing mostly quest and crafted blues I'd rather not get oneshot by a lv71 mob designed to be fought by people wearing SPLAT gear.
You just made my day
Figured a lvl 71 monster being a 'farming challenge' for a tankadin of my gear, it'd have to hit me for about 400 damage after block...which leads to an 800 unmitigated hit, or about 2700 damage before armor.


Those poor, poor clothies leveling in Northrend...


Nah, they'll just make all the mobs do Nature or Arcane damage. Problem solved.

Because undead do nature damage and oversized seals do arcane damage, right?

In fact, I bet Antonidas is actually a Tuskarr in disguise. His face in WC3 is that ugly.
Also, Thrall is Heigan's muppet.
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Postby ulushnar » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:08 pm

Snake-Aes wrote:Because undead do nature damage and oversized seals do arcane damage, right?


It makes about as much sense as Medieval-level characters building helicopters and motorcycles.

Let's face it, Blizz will do anything in the name of either game balance or fun. Rationales come after the fact.
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Postby PsiVen » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:19 pm

Personally I'm looking forward to farming my daily heroic SH solo at 80.

My belf pally in greens, however, would not be looking forward to getting facerolled by 71 mobs.

I do think though, that the difficulty curve should be steep in Northrend. It was somewhat in TBC, but the majority of mains have T5ish gear right now, even the ones who never ever raid. I hope that 77-80 zones will be brutal for alts such that they continue questing in other areas until they're ready; getting to the level cap should mean something after all.
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Postby Peryl » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:24 pm

Dane wrote:
Tycho wrote:
Veneretio wrote:
kingharbromm wrote:I see what you've done! You've created a world where people would need to run Naxxramas to prepare to go to 70 dungeons! Good on you! Now people would be running BWL and MC to get the gear to do Naxx. This is awesome. Alts are running through all these dungeons together (or with their level 80 T10 bretheren). The gameplay experience - albeit longer - is bettered by the fact that we get to experience all the dungeons that Blizzard designed for us rather than power leveling to 70 and jumping straight into Kara.

I don't think there's enough people or time going around for that. The reality is this game is catered to the Maximum level (be it 60 before, 70 now, or 80 in the future) and I don't think I'm alone when I say it's better for it.


I just wish they would retune all the old-world stuff to be relevant in today's game.


/sign.

Man, I miss some of the old raids.

I don't know HOW you'd make it viable, since it's fun to see new stuff too...and I certainly don't want it to be a situation where ONE piece of tier gear drops off of the end boss in each raid, but it'd be great to find a way to re-implement MC, BWL, ZG, etc...

AQ40...now THERE'S a raid that just didn't get enough attention.


Heroic versions? I haven't been really following the WoTLK notes but they are updating Naxx. Just seems to me that Blizz would have to make the effort. I think people would run them, heck guilds run them now just for fun.
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Re: Gear Reset Makes Me Angry...

Postby Dimitry » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:25 pm

Ulushnar wrote:Nah, they'll just make all the mobs do Nature or Arcane damage. Problem solved.


Nope, they just made them do "chaos" damage. Lame.
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Postby Splug » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:27 pm

To be honest, even raid guilds would not be happy with the bottle-necking by demanding previous tiers. We have to get our tryouts somewhere, and while the welfare epics have cheapened the accomplishments of those at the end of the game, they also sure make finding people equipped to at least start in the current zone much more reasonable. The more bottlenecking you make, the more the raid guilds suffer from having to carry players through old content - which is neither exciting, fun, or new. Moreover, it doesn't really make "the new guy" experience anything other than watching people who are overequipped steamroll a joke zone.

FFXI had several very creative ideas, and one of them would be applicable here: certain zones were level capped, and entering them at a higher level would revert you back down to the earlier level. Now, the implementation they had was pretty horrid - you needed gear from that level range too, so everyone's bank was loaded down with lv 25 armor, and the market value for the stuff was ludicrous. But you have to admit, it would be kinda cool if there was a way to "turn back time" to the lv 60 cap and run Naxx as it was designed, not in the watered down mockery we'll see in wotlk. Making it a mandatory gateway to progress? Not practical. Make it doable under the terms it was designed, and perhaps give some unique rewards for doing so? Much more reasonable.

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Postby solina » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:51 pm

Norrath wrote:
Game experience, longer? No, it'd simply have a big, fat road block that says, Only People With Lots of Virtual Friends Who Can All Clear Their Calendar at the Same Times May Pass.


Edited to reflect my own feelings on the subject. For, I have time to raid, but my in-game friends are spread far-aflung the globe, with different RL priorities, and different avaialbilities..
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Postby MichaelBerea » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:15 pm

Splug wrote:To be honest, even raid guilds would not be happy with the bottle-necking by demanding previous tiers. The more bottlenecking you make, the more the raid guilds suffer from having to carry players through old content - which is neither exciting, fun, or new.
-Splug


That is definitely the main problem I have with requiring old-school raids.

The achievements system could be the solution. I'd like to see an achievement for downing all the bosses in an old-school raid. All of them should yield a unique outfit or non-combat pet.
For something easier like Scholomance it should be silly, a mockery of the person wearing it.
For something really hard like clearing Naxxramus it should give you an epic ground mount that goes 10% faster or a vendor with decent buff food.

Sadly I doubt Blizzard will implement anything non-functional in a creative way. They save that for the trading card cash cow.
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Postby Grimmal » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:05 am

Splug wrote:FFXI had several very creative ideas, and one of them would be applicable here: certain zones were level capped, and entering them at a higher level would revert you back down to the earlier level. Now, the implementation they had was pretty horrid - you needed gear from that level range too, so everyone's bank was loaded down with lv 25 armor, and the market value for the stuff was ludicrous. But you have to admit, it would be kinda cool if there was a way to "turn back time" to the lv 60 cap and run Naxx as it was designed, not in the watered down mockery we'll see in wotlk. Making it a mandatory gateway to progress? Not practical. Make it doable under the terms it was designed, and perhaps give some unique rewards for doing so? Much more reasonable.


For all of the flaws that I found in playing EverQuest 2, it has the absolutely perfect system for this. (City of Heroes / Villians kind of does as well) Mentoring.

Say I have a friend that just started playing ini EQ2 and I'm currently level 70 sitting around with the best dungeon gear I could get. Not a problem, I simply join the group with my friend and then click on his potrait and select the 'mentor' option. I'm then immediately wiped of all buffs and my level, skills and spells, and gear are matched to his. My gear which is equal to blue gear in WoW at 70 then becomes the equal of blue gear at 30 for example.

The system had flaws which mainly involved how you could exploit the trivial loot code (a flawed system itself imo) with a little creative grouping, but otherwise it made playing with lower level friends or guildmates a snap. You didn't have to keep seperate gear, remem your spells, or anything else. Just click and play. The best thing of all was that you also still gained experience (scaled to your current level but still) if you weren't at max level so it was still somewhat worthwhile.

Why Blizzard won't cave to this feature when they have to so many others leaves me stumped. It's one of the most player friendly features and allows players of all levels to still enjoy 'old' content. If there is anything I miss about EQ2 besides playing a Coercer it's this feature.
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Postby Manius » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:12 am

Requiring raid progression for expansion is a terrible idea, but...

Reworked, heroic Molten Core? Yes please. Maybe CoT 5-man instance or something.
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Postby EvilNuff » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:38 am

"Bottle necking" on old content is what killed EverQuest. There is absolutely no possible way WoW would or should do this...EVER.

In EQ when you reached level cap they added AA's (alternate advancement points) where you basically got points with your xp instead of levels and used those to buy additional abilities. For example, you could improve your avoidance, your mitigation, your hps as a tank. The problem arose when everyone had a couple hundred AAs and they balanced the next expansions content for people having those AAs. Repeat this a couple expansions and you reach a point where a fresh person new to the game literally could not play the game to level cap without stopping to grind for weeks or moths in the middle. Also because EQ was a grouping not a solo game you literally could not find groups...this created a game where new players literally could not play.

Bottle necking is a horrible, horrible idea. Now it's not unreasonable to re-use old content with say a heroic version for a new level cap. However if you look at it, that requires almost as much time as creating new content. And obviously brand new content is far superior to re-used old content. As a result this is not feasible.
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Re: Gear Reset Makes Me Angry...

Postby Frickit » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:10 am

Skwigelf wrote:
kingharbromm wrote:I just read a post in the WotLK forum where someone mentioned that people are way overgeared for Northrend right now. Northrend is designed for a typical player who just hit 70 to go there and be successful much like the transition from Dun Morogh to Loch Modan.

But WHY!?!


Because when I go into Northrend with my lv68 Death Knight wearing mostly quest and crafted blues I'd rather not get oneshot by a lv71 mob designed to be fought by people wearing SPLAT gear.

I get what you're saying. I'd love to run all the old 40 mans. But making them mandatory in order to progress is just silly. Not everyone has the time or the social resources(ie: small guilds of 10-20 friends) to get 39 other people together every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday to run MC when you can get better gear by lv63 in Outland doing soloable quests.

You'd basically be giving this game, which was meant to be casual friendly, back to the 5-10% of people that are hardcore raiders.


I say give it back to the people who made it what it is. People like my girlfriend who was hardcore preTBC raider and guild cofounder. Those 40 man raiding guilds were the heart and sole of this game and all the lore and books and trading cards were like crack to them. Now its just lame. If it wasnt lame I wouldnt be playing but I still say give it back to them.
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Re: Gear Reset Makes Me Angry...

Postby ulushnar » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:13 am

Frickit wrote: Now its just lame. If it wasnt lame I wouldnt be playing but I still say give it back to them.


Why would they? For every "Lore-freak" they lost they gained 100 other players.
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Re: Gear Reset Makes Me Angry...

Postby Frickit » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:17 am

Ulushnar wrote:
Frickit wrote: Now its just lame. If it wasnt lame I wouldnt be playing but I still say give it back to them.


Why would they? For every "Lore-freak" they lost they gained 100 other players.


itll never happen theres waaaaay too many people putting money into it now. but thats only because of how awesome it was for the people who were serious. I say give the hardcore raiders a 60 cap and old world content again. But seriously from what I hear about the old days this game sucks now. No chance in hell Id ever try to be a part of a 40 man raid myself lawl. Talk about a headache.
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Re: Gear Reset Makes Me Angry...

Postby ulushnar » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:23 am

Frickit wrote:itll never happen theres waaaaay too many people putting money into it now. but thats only because of how awesome it was for the people who were serious. I say give the hardcore raiders a 60 cap and old world content again. But seriously from what I hear about the old days this game sucks now.


From someone who played the old game, it totally rocks now.

Check out the "Blizzard Hates Paladins" videos for insight into how much we were screwed back then. I didn't notice too much back then since I was playing my Hunter and dealing with the unweildly 10-sec aimed-multi rotations.

Everything Blizz has done to the game since then has made it leaner, faster, fairer and more accessible. Don't let the "it was good when..." crowd go piss on your chips.
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