A new way to burst our bubble

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Postby Arcand » Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:38 pm

Fridmarr wrote:I think what Arcand was talking about, is the way Bornakk is acting like what bleeding edge guilds do, doesn't or shouldn't have any affect on what other guilds do. Wether it should or not, it's a bit naive to suggest it doesn't.


It pisses me off that the person he's addressing is absolutely right, yet Bornakk advances a pathetic meaningless argument. Here's me paraphrasing the exchange:

A: When cutting-edge guilds start using non-warriors on progression fights, you will be able to argue that this game isn't biased in favor of warriors. Note: This remark is completely accurate.

B: I know of non-cutting-edge guilds who use bears.

Bornakk could have started hurling feces at that point, it would have contributed just as much to the discourse.
Arcand
Moderator
 
Posts: 4525
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:15 am

Postby Dorvan » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:01 am

Fridmarr wrote:For Supremus, it doesn't really matter. The druids will take slightly less damage, but we lose a little DPS having them in bear. There's no reason to do it that way, there's no reason to use a pally either. On mother, the extra damage reduction and the extra healing outweigh any reason to use a pally. On Council, Druids can interrupt the priest and pickup the rogue easier with moonfire/charge to deal with bop/bosw. For Gurtogg, in the context of our raids, it most certainly is not a mistake to have the pally healing. It's a very healing intensive fight and the extra healing is very helpful. The only reason for a tank death is when the fel rage target dies, and the extra healing helps prevent that. Also, the druids produce more threat when not getting hit here, increasing our phase 1 DPS quite a bit.


I think one difference between your guild and mine may be roster size. Who we take as tanks and who we take as healers are completely independent decisions, so whether or not we use a pally tank has no bearing on the number of healers we use for a given fight. That seems to be of the the bigger reasons for you, and a non-factor us us: if we need healing, we'll bring in an extra healer an still leave me in tanking.
Image

WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Scriggle - 85 Fire Mage
Fizzmore - 81 Mut Rogue
Adorania - 80 Disc Priest
User avatar
Dorvan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:28 pm

Postby Fridmarr » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:42 am

Dorvan wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:For Supremus, it doesn't really matter. The druids will take slightly less damage, but we lose a little DPS having them in bear. There's no reason to do it that way, there's no reason to use a pally either. On mother, the extra damage reduction and the extra healing outweigh any reason to use a pally. On Council, Druids can interrupt the priest and pickup the rogue easier with moonfire/charge to deal with bop/bosw. For Gurtogg, in the context of our raids, it most certainly is not a mistake to have the pally healing. It's a very healing intensive fight and the extra healing is very helpful. The only reason for a tank death is when the fel rage target dies, and the extra healing helps prevent that. Also, the druids produce more threat when not getting hit here, increasing our phase 1 DPS quite a bit.


I think one difference between your guild and mine may be roster size. Who we take as tanks and who we take as healers are completely independent decisions, so whether or not we use a pally tank has no bearing on the number of healers we use for a given fight. That seems to be of the the bigger reasons for you, and a non-factor us us: if we need healing, we'll bring in an extra healer an still leave me in tanking.


They are independent for us too, but we try not to sub. When we have an encounter that requires less tanks than we have in the raid, we make an assessment for the encounter as a whole. The result is that in BT, a prot pally does a lot of healing on boss fights, because that's what is most beneficial for us.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9667
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Postby Dorvan » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:45 am

Fridmarr wrote:They are independent for us too, but we try not to sub. When we have an encounter that requires less tanks than we have in the raid, we make an assessment for the encounter as a whole. The result is that in BT, a prot pally does a lot of healing on boss fights, because that's what is most beneficial for us.


Well, we're usually running no more than 3 tanks at a time, so determining who's not going to be tanking doesn't really make sense for us on fights like Bloodboil, Mother, or Council: all the tanks we have in will be tanking. The only fight where we ever have a Prot Pally healing full time is Najen'tus, and maybe Gorefiend (though on that fight, we prefer extra DPS to extra healing at this point).
Image

WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Scriggle - 85 Fire Mage
Fizzmore - 81 Mut Rogue
Adorania - 80 Disc Priest
User avatar
Dorvan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:28 pm

Postby Candiru » Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:51 am

On the last time we did Mother I took 100k damage and the bear took 140k damage.

So it seems we are much better than them at sabre lash soaking.

Blocking for 600ish on each hit adds up I guess?
Image
Candiru
 
Posts: 2479
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 12:21 pm

Postby Faylinn » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:57 am

The argument that casuals don't min/max is in my experience wrong. If anything they do it more then the mid range harder core guilds.

1) With limited time and resources, min/max-ing is the the best way to progress.

2) Its easier to get a "friend" to sacrifice themselves in the name of the guild.

3) The more casual, the less time they spend on research and experimentation. "the top 10 guilds did it this way using that strat", they mimic rather then invent.
Image
Bouncelot 60 Human Paladin - StormScale
Faylinn
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:07 am
Location: Toronto

Postby jere » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:27 am

Fridmarr wrote:They are independent for us too, but we try not to sub. When we have an encounter that requires less tanks than we have in the raid, we make an assessment for the encounter as a whole. The result is that in BT, a prot pally does a lot of healing on boss fights, because that's what is most beneficial for us.


Interestingly enough, we tend to deviate the other way. If we need less tanks in BT, we typically have the warrior DPS, while I tank. This isn't all the time mind you, as I have healed on Naj'entus and Gorefiend sometimes, but in general, we typically have plenty of healers. Now if we bring certain healers, I offer to heal anyways to save us from a bunch of issues, but in a general sense, we have found the opposite of what your raid finds true. I always tank on Supremus though. AS+Exorcism is pure haxx there, especially for those times a volcano is up underneath him at the end of phase 2.

It is pretty interesting how different groups view the same problem honestly.
Image
User avatar
jere
 
Posts: 2967
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 5:12 pm

Postby Lieris » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:11 am

Candiru wrote:On the last time we did Mother I took 100k damage and the bear took 140k damage.

So it seems we are much better than them at sabre lash soaking.

Blocking for 600ish on each hit adds up I guess?


I wouldn't know, I am usually downstairs making some food or in the bathroom during Shahraz because Blizzard did everything they could to stop her from being MTed by paladins.
Lieris
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:49 am

Postby Fridmarr » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:20 am

Candiru wrote:On the last time we did Mother I took 100k damage and the bear took 140k damage.

So it seems we are much better than them at sabre lash soaking.

Blocking for 600ish on each hit adds up I guess?


You probably avoided more hits, the druid definitely should be taking less damage per hit even including your block value.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9667
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Postby Tzuma » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:34 am

Faylinn wrote:The argument that casuals don't min/max is in my experience wrong. If anything they do it more then the mid range harder core guilds.

1) With limited time and resources, min/max-ing is the the best way to progress.

2) Its easier to get a "friend" to sacrifice themselves in the name of the guild.

3) The more casual, the less time they spend on research and experimentation. "the top 10 guilds did it this way using that strat", they mimic rather then invent.
I find this to be extremely true as well, in 'casual' guilds who want to really progress. Not just in tanking duties, but also class makeup (ie ret paladin hate). While the idea that theyll take whoever they can get sounds plausible, I find much more bias in this level of raiding than my former hardcore style.
Tzuma
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:29 am

Previous

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: theckhd and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: theckhd and 1 guest