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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:58 am

Lore wrote:At least this arena 'fix' doesn't bleed over into PVE...
Dalliah? <shrug> Can't remember of fights where monsters had "Will screw you" healing and were vulnerable to MS.
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Postby Lore » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:02 pm

Well, it's a PVE buff if anything I mean.

Unlike the annoying water 'fix'.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:03 pm

Hum, water fix? >.<
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Postby Lore » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:05 pm

You don't get mana for like 6 seconds on PTR once you start drinking. First 'tick' does nothing, second tick does normal + 66%, third tick does normal + 33%, from then on it's normal.

It's not a huge deal (it used to be worse when it was completely broken and would take like 10-20 seconds to start getting anything at all) but it's annoying when I just need to top off.
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:16 pm

Lore wrote:You don't get mana for like 6 seconds on PTR once you start drinking. First 'tick' does nothing, second tick does normal + 66%, third tick does normal + 33%, from then on it's normal.

It's not a huge deal (it used to be worse when it was completely broken and would take like 10-20 seconds to start getting anything at all) but it's annoying when I just need to top off.


They are reversing that change in PVE, it will only apply in arenas now.
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Postby Songblade » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:16 pm

Good -.-'
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Postby Elennira » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:24 pm

maybe its the other way around?

instead of being an MS like effect, its an effect like Anatheron's cone aoe, where it affects healing DONE by the affected target
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Postby Neuron » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:24 pm

the water bug sticky in the test realm forum is related to graphics issues. something to do with graphics card settings and frame opacity settings (translucent layers) in their map files.

there is a documented bug where only one person in an instance can regenerate mana from drinking at a time. this may have been fixed in the last few days.

there is a documented change that lore explained where water was designed to not return mana right away. not really a bug, just a change. now they seem to be changing this again and having it only affect arenas.

there is a semi-documented bug resulting from the above "change" where water fails to properly restore any mana at all for the entire drinking duration of 30 seconds, or where it only restores about 300-600 mana after 30 seconds. can't tell if this was fixed, but the further changing above the above change may fix it as a side effect. hortus never acknowledged this as a bug but many people reported it.



I think the change is related to the fact that shamans are under-represented in arenas in comparison to paladins and druids. That seems to be the defining logic behind alot of their changes. They buff classes to the point where hardcore pvpers choose them so that they get a balanced distribution of classes. They buffed priest pvp with pain suppression, fire mage pvp with ice block, they "think" they are buffing healers with resilience affecting mana burn, etc. its all tweaks. the fact is, players play this game to win, and it really isnt how the devs initially imagined it. these changes are just tweaks to account for how players have manipulated the intended system. even with these tweaks players will do anything at any length to further manipulate the system to improve their odds of winning arenas, gear or no gear.

The fact that they don't fix shaman kiting or anti-cc is precisely because those are likely the intended weaknesses of the class. Im sorry, even though it may be bugged or doesnt work, but thinks like tremor/grounding totem are there for their purposes. Druids dont have a fear counter (baring the trinket everyone has), so technically shamans are better against fear CC. At least this seems to be the logic of how the devs perform balances. they let druids kite but get feared, they let shamans avoid fear but not be able to kite. Druids dont have an armor buff, shamans do. Druids dont have chain heal, shamans do. Druids are a leather class in caster form, which they spend some amount of time in an arena, shamans are a mail class. etc.

It's rock/paper/scissors for apples and oranges.
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:34 pm

Elennira wrote:maybe its the other way around?

instead of being an MS like effect, its an effect like Anatheron's cone aoe, where it affects healing DONE by the affected target


Maybe it is, it's the same goal in my mind, bumping up shaman participation in smaller arenas as the antidruid. Presumably, if it's a debuff on the caster, then it would be a magical debuff, dispellable by priests and pallys, but not...you guessed it, druids.

I'd expect it to be a MS type effect though since that's the bandaid they seem to like, but you never know.
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Postby Kanazuchi » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:58 pm

I love it since my character I play a lot other then Kana is a shaman and yesterday in PvP had me banging my head against the keyboard as this stupid fecking Druid would HoT, I'd purge and he'd still get a ton of health all of a sudden due to that talent they have that grants so much % of the HoT when purged. Drove me mad because, you know, you're supposed to go after the healer and he wouldn't die. Granted I'd rather have WF on both but Flametounge will be nice to go on the off hand now when dealing with that stupid situation.
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:18 pm

Kanazuchi wrote:I love it since my character I play a lot other then Kana is a shaman and yesterday in PvP had me banging my head against the keyboard as this stupid fecking Druid would HoT, I'd purge and he'd still get a ton of health all of a sudden due to that talent they have that grants so much % of the HoT when purged. Drove me mad because, you know, you're supposed to go after the healer and he wouldn't die. Granted I'd rather have WF on both but Flametounge will be nice to go on the off hand now when dealing with that stupid situation.


Yes, purging lifebloom causes it to bloom and heal. Lifebloom was nerfed, and shamans who can dispel it and other hots now also has healing debuff. Shaman are considered by blue (Kalgan I believe) to be gimped in 2v2/3v3 and have low representation, resto druids are quite strong in 2v2/3v3 and have high representation. Shaman are imo the new antidruid (resto).
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:36 pm

Uh, the latest patch notes....

Flametongue Totem damage effects now also reduce healing done to the target by 50% and lasts 5 seconds.


Mortal Strike for all the melee!
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Postby Beltaine » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:59 pm

Fridmarr wrote:Uh, the latest patch notes....

Flametongue Totem damage effects now also reduce healing done to the target by 50% and lasts 5 seconds.


Mortal Strike for all the melee!


Wow... just... wow...
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:06 pm

Makes me wonder about a 2 enhance shaman and 1 ret pally team. CC removal, snare removal, double purge, 2 stuns, Mortal Strike all over the damn place and tremor/grounding/windfury totems as needed, and judgement of justice for the druids.
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Postby Neuros » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:38 pm

Mortal Strike makes me cry at night.
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