LGBT rights discussion

[Klaudandus]

Yeah, like I said when I replied to Malthrax, I thought you were trying to make a point when in reality you were trying to make a different one. My bad.

[Koatanga]

I am proud to say that the New Zealand government is currently considering a bill to make gay marriage legal. We currently have legal Civil Unions between same-sex partners, with all of the rights of married people except the ability to adopt children. The bill being discussed will allow proper marriage between same-sex couples.

I am glad that the people in our government did not rest on their laurels having won the Civil Union battle, but continued to push for marriage.

[Skye1013]

Hopefully it makes it through!

As for the Civil Union vs Marriage thing... I have no problems with Civil Unions IF they are the exact same thing (at which point you're only arguing the semantics of a name.) Or, as has been mentioned previously, Civil Union = government recognized coupling, Marriage = religiously recognized coupling (granting no benefits unless for some reason your particular religion gives married members some sort of "perk," but then that probably falls under something similar to the BSA and exclusivity.)

[Klaudandus]

[Skye1013]

This guy needs to be lobotomized in the most painful way possible.

[Fivelives]

A lobotomy is too kind. He should be slathered in honey and staked out over a fire ant hill during the hottest part of the day here where I live, then have a wasp's nest dropped on him from a highrise construction crane.

After he recovers from that, a gay couple should kidnap his kids and get them out via an Underground Railroad, just to see how this jackass likes it. Seriously.

[Skye1013]

I was attempting to rescue the brain that is obviously not in use. I'm sure science could use a brain like that to study...

[bldavis]

my favorite was when i saw another article titled "Bryan Fischer: Using My Words To Prove My Hate Of Gays Is A Hate Crime"

[Fivelives]

I didn't know it was possible for a grown man to be that oblivious to the shit spewing out of their hot air vents without being the product of dedicated inbreeding.

Faith in humanity status: hanged by the neck and no longer twitching.

[Sabindeus]

the fact that anyone could actually say those things and mean it really blows my mind

[Passionario]

the fact that anyone could actually say those things and mean it really blows my mind

Oh, it's easy. People do it all the time. As Robert Anton Wilson put it, "Whatever the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves". All humans have an inherent tendency to focus on facts and experiences that support their personal worldview, filter out things that don't fit in it, and interpret ambiguities in the way that is more consistent with it. And, of course, the more proof we find, the stronger said worldview becomes, this forming a self-supporting feedback loop.

For example, if an individual with strong anti-LGBT beliefs was to read the last few posts prior to yours and take them at face value, he'd see two villains cold-bloodedly discussing whether it would be more advantageous to torture or lobotomize their political opponents. "Holy shit", he or she would think, "Bryan Fischer was right, after all! These guys are literal Nazis!".

[Sabindeus]

the fact that anyone could actually say those things and mean it really blows my mind

Oh, it's easy. People do it all the time. As Robert Anton Wilson put it, "Whatever the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves". All humans have an inherent tendency to focus on facts and experiences that support their personal worldview, filter out things that don't fit in it, and interpret ambiguities in the way that is more consistent with it. And, of course, the more proof we find, the stronger said worldview becomes, this forming a self-supporting feedback loop.

For example, if an individual with strong anti-LGBT beliefs was to read the last few posts prior to yours and take them at face value, he'd see two villains cold-bloodedly discussing whether it would be more advantageous to torture or lobotomize their political opponents. "Holy shit", he or she would think, "Bryan Fischer was right, after all! These guys are literal Nazis!". :roll:

I was going to say that, but then I actually clicked on the link and saw that they were just riffing off of what the dude said.

[Skye1013]

It's true, context is important. Just look at the "gaffe" the President made (according to right wing media) by saying people didn't build their companies/positions. Sure, HE was referring to bridges and roads... but they conveniently skipped over that.

[Skye1013]

[Fridmarr]

For example, if an individual with strong anti-LGBT beliefs was to read the last few posts prior to yours and take them at face value, he'd see two villains cold-bloodedly discussing whether it would be more advantageous to torture or lobotomize their political opponents. "Holy shit", he or she would think, "Bryan Fischer was right, after all! These guys are literal Nazis!".

HAHA, well done.

[bldavis]

dam skye, you beat me to it!

[tullock]

The only punishment that guy deserves is to see happily married same sex couples happily raising happy children. Just because he is a monster doesn't mean that those of us that can see him as such should also become monsters.

Not that i wouldnt kill the shit out of anyone who was kidnapping children, and may whatever non christian God they worship have mercy on their eternal soul, because my christian one doesnt preach the hatemongering that has been going on.

[Levantine]

The only punishment that guy deserves is to see happily married same sex couples happily raising happy children. Just because he is a monster doesn't mean that those of us that can see him as such should also become monsters.

Not that i wouldnt kill the shit out of anyone who was kidnapping children, and may whatever non christian God they worship have mercy on their eternal soul, because my christian one doesnt preach the hatemongering that has been going on.

I wholeheartedly agree, the best part of that is that seeing happily married gay couples with happy children would be more torturous than anything else that could have been done to him. I'm probably not a great person.

[Nikachelle]

Except that they'll remain forever convinced that the kids are unhappy. They'll see what they want to see, basically.

[Fivelives]

Problem with that is the audience. If he was just Joe Schmoe from down the block, it wouldn't be an issue - BUT, he's a "respected" figure with an audience of around 180 million people listening to his hatemongering.

[bldavis]

i guess all that can be done is wait until someone actually kidnaps a legally adopted/AI birthed child from a gay couple and claims this guy said it was right

[Skye1013]

[Melathys]

[Fivelives]

A lot of people bring up the Leviticus quote, but honestly - didn't Jesus himself say that he was the breaking of the old covenant and the forging of a new one? I'm a bit rusty on my Bible-ese, but I'm pretty sure he mentioned something along those lines. Which in turn would mean that Leviticus hasn't applied since Jesus came on the scene.

However, he also said something along the lines of "what you hold to be true on earth, my father holds true in heaven", so the teachings of Paul condemning homosexuality are valid, at least in a dogmatic sense. Until a current sitting Pope repeals them, that is.

Considering that we've got plenty of people on the planet as is, and the church still condemns birth control, I think it's going to be a pretty long wait for the church to fall into line with the human rights movements. Unless of course it directly benefits the church. Honestly, I can't help but think that some of the "stick" is caused by all the allegations about child abuse being fired at the church, and them raising a big ruckus about LGBT rights is either meant to draw attention away from those, or to try and show a "hard line" stance on the part of the church, since most of the molestation allegations are homosexual in nature.

And yes, I know that molestation is about power and dominance more than gender preference.

[Koatanga]

Paul also said:

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

So that's also valid, at least in a dogmatic sense.