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Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Election 2012

Postby Malthrax » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:34 am

Klaudandus wrote:Again, it's sorites paradox... and not entirely hypocritical...

I'm still unsure why it's bad for a woman to have a choice as long as you haven't crossed the viability line.


So, you admit that you are in-favor of restricting a woman's right-to-choose.


The Party platform is pretty clear on that topic:
2012 Democratic National Party Platform wrote:Protecting A Woman’s Right to Choose: The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:49 am

Klaudandus wrote:Again, it's sorites paradox... and not entirely hypocritical...
It is. It's saying that you can control a woman's body at the point in which you believe that the fetus has rights. At the same time you chastise others for wanting the same control under the guise of woman's rights when it's not a woman's rights issue at all, its because you disagree with them as to when the fetus has rights.

Klaudandus wrote: I'm still unsure why it's bad for a woman to have a choice as long as you havent crossed the viability line.

I never said that it was bad for a woman to have that choice.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:35 am

I thought the point of declaring a state of emergency/disaster area was so that you could ignore the government bureaucracy that hampers the process of getting work done while vital services are down. I guess not...

http://m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/news/ ... lang=en-US

Is this going to garner the attention that it should?
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Malthrax » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:21 am

Fridmarr wrote:I thought the point of declaring a state of emergency/disaster area was so that you could ignore the government bureaucracy that hampers the process of getting work done while vital services are down. I guess not...

http://m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/news/ ... lang=en-US

Is this going to garner the attention that it should?


Don't hold your breath.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Cogglamp » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:42 am

That is really quite sad given the state that NJ/NY are currently in. That gives me additional fuel to flame my irrational loathing towards unionized labor.

Sidenote: I voted today on my absentee ballot. Democracy is pretty freakin' awesome.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Malthrax » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:44 am

Cogglamp wrote:...irrational loathing towards unionized labor.


I am 100% in favor of unionized labor. I don't think its in the workers' best interests that they be indiscriminately ionized.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:54 am

I think it's completely stupid what happened in NY/NJ

indiscriminately ionized.


What about Gamma Rays?
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:02 am

Malthrax wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:I thought the point of declaring a state of emergency/disaster area was so that you could ignore the government bureaucracy that hampers the process of getting work done while vital services are down. I guess not...

http://m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/news/ ... lang=en-US

Is this going to garner the attention that it should?


Don't hold your breath.


Yes but let's use some critical thinking here. What facts does this article actually report?

It reports that one southerner told one southern newspaper an anecdote. No other witnesses, no corraborating evidence, no statement by the Union involved, and no other cases of it occuring.
We should be suspicious when someone with a bias relates an anecdote that seems to confirm their stereotype.

We should be asking questions like:
Is this actually official union policy? Or were a few individual workers just being idiots? Did it even happen at all, or was there just some kind of isolated misunderstanding?
If this kind of event was in any way significant or widespread, how come we have heard no more reports of it anywhere, from anyone, except this short, obscure yahoo article? Why no additional anecdotes from other people? Why no anecdotes from crew members originating from states that don't have a political bias against unions? Why no complaints from frustrated residents?


The only other fact reported was that another crew was asked to stand down by a certain town. No context whatsoever given. Why were they asked to stand down? Surely the town made some kind of statement. Why was a quote from that statement not included? No one from the town leadership could be interviewed for comment? No official representative from the company whose crews were asked to stand down could be interviewed for comment?
What on Earth are we supposed to conclude from this?


This is an extremely sloppy peice of journalism, and should be viewed with extreme skepticism unless they produce a great deal more evidence to support their assertions.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Aubade » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:05 am

Malthrax wrote:
Cogglamp wrote:...irrational loathing towards unionized labor.


I am 100% in favor of unionized labor. I don't think its in the workers' best interests that they be indiscriminately ionized.



Why are you in favor of unionized Labor? I believe they had a place at one point in history, but no longer. They really serve little to no purpose. At least in the Blue-collar job community.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:09 am

Aubade wrote:
Malthrax wrote:
Cogglamp wrote:...irrational loathing towards unionized labor.


I am 100% in favor of unionized labor. I don't think its in the workers' best interests that they be indiscriminately ionized.



Why are you in favor of unionized Labor? I believe they had a place at one point in history, but no longer. They really serve little to no purpose. At least in the Blue-collar job community.


He was making a pun on the fact that the word "ionized" is contained in the word "unionized".
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Paxen » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:20 am

Aubade wrote:Why are you in favor of unionized Labor? I believe they had a place at one point in history, but no longer. They really serve little to no purpose. At least in the Blue-collar job community.


Labour unions have a place as long as owners are looking to maximize profits above all else.

What needs reform is the specific labour unions in the US, who looks like pretty shitty examples.

Stuff unions can do:
- Prevent owners from sacking you for missing work one day when you were sick
- Enable workers to get higher pay, instead of ownership playing them off against each other
- Generally help you if managers try dirty tricks
- Fund legal aid if necessary in a conflict between an employee and the employer
- Lobby for legislation that benefits workers. Unless you think big business isn't lobbying for legislation that benefits them?
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Aubade » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:28 am

Paxen wrote:
Aubade wrote:Why are you in favor of unionized Labor? I believe they had a place at one point in history, but no longer. They really serve little to no purpose. At least in the Blue-collar job community.


Labour unions have a place as long as owners are looking to maximize profits above all else.

What needs reform is the specific labour unions in the US, who looks like pretty shitty examples.

Stuff unions can do:
- Prevent owners from sacking you for missing work one day when you were sick
- Enable workers to get higher pay, instead of ownership playing them off against each other
- Generally help you if managers try dirty tricks
- Fund legal aid if necessary in a conflict between an employee and the employer
- Lobby for legislation that benefits workers. Unless you think big business isn't lobbying for legislation that benefits them?


Maybe it's different in other parts of the country but for the most part here in WA state, these are things (outside of the lobbying) that you can do on your own with little-to-no financial pressure on yourself. There are government organizations, Bureaus, and organizations you can talk to WITHOUT joining a union.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Malthrax » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:38 am

Aubade wrote:
Paxen wrote:
Aubade wrote:Why are you in favor of unionized Labor? I believe they had a place at one point in history, but no longer. They really serve little to no purpose. At least in the Blue-collar job community.


Labour unions have a place as long as owners are looking to maximize profits above all else.

What needs reform is the specific labour unions in the US, who looks like pretty shitty examples.

Stuff unions can do:
- Prevent owners from sacking you for missing work one day when you were sick
- Enable workers to get higher pay, instead of ownership playing them off against each other
- Generally help you if managers try dirty tricks
- Fund legal aid if necessary in a conflict between an employee and the employer
- Lobby for legislation that benefits workers. Unless you think big business isn't lobbying for legislation that benefits them?


Maybe it's different in other parts of the country but for the most part here in WA state, these are things (outside of the lobbying) that you can do on your own with little-to-no financial pressure on yourself. There are government organizations, Bureaus, and organizations you can talk to WITHOUT joining a union.

Unless you happen to be a teacher.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Aubade » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:17 am

Mm Yeah, that is true. Although I don't think Unions can do everything that teachers need to get the respect and pay they actually deserve.

Lets use an example here. I am a machinist. It's what I do, and there are machinist unions. Now I am a certified programmer and I have passed many safety courses. I am eligible to join the Machinist union here in the NW.

Pros: It opens a few doors for me as far as employment (not relevant since I'm already employed)
I might get paid more, (Not likely since most jobs around here are non-union, and the union jobs pay the same after you consider union dues.)
Job security, Not relevant since I don't slack off at work anyways and I am respected by my co-workers and boss.

Cons: Union dues
I'm not allowed to do better than my co-workers for fear of making them look bad (this is EXTREMELY relevant in the machining world.)
I have to constantly answer to someone outside of my boss
If I work to my full potential and finish a job quickly I get harrassed/looked down upon by my fellow union members who can't perform as well as I can.
I am looked down upon by employers.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Malthrax » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:29 pm

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