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Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Election 2012

Postby Melathys » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:11 pm

thats exactly what my wife said "at least he's not flip flopping."
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Lightbeard » Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:52 am

Skye1013 wrote:Stepping away from the upcoming US elections... this cracked article is awesome, though the title is arguable, based on your definition of "crazy."

Snake (and any other Brazilians), how do you like the elections down there?

http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/the- ... than-usas/


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Re: Election 2012

Postby Delphineas » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:20 am

I think I picked up on the tone of that rape article quick enough to not get too upset about it. But the comments...I made the mistake of being curious about a link. Rape babies for Romney gave me chills.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:52 am

Thalia wrote:"It bugged me that Romney mispronounced Pashtuns, the primary ethnic group in Afghanistan as "Pash-tons" (correct is "Pash-toons"). It's the kind of mistake that you would NEVER make if you had ever actually been briefed by an expert on the country. To those of us who have been-there-done-that, it made him look like he had based his Afghanistan ideas on reading the wikipedia page 10 minutes before the debate.
Obama, by contrast, pronounced Pakistan ("Pa-key-stan") correctly, which is rare for Americans."

Wow that is so nit-picky, what about when Obama kept calling people CORPSMEN...over and over again at a ceremony. I often mispronounce things...you should see how people look at me when I mispronounce MANGA...it's like they give me the laser eyes of death lol.

For those standards then Obama is the best at being "briefed" well enough to be able to do the important things like pronounce Pashtun correct.


I only brought it up because it is an indicator of the kind of people who are advising Romney on his Foreign Policy strategy. Specifically, people who sit in "think-tanks" and only know what they have read, but consider themselves to be self-declared "experts". Put another way; people who don't know what they are talking about.

It may seem nit-picky, but if you think about it, there are only two reasons to make that mistake:
1)Romney had only ever seen the word in print, never actually spoken in conversation (which would speak volumes).
2)He was repeating a mispronounciation used by whoever he had discussed Afghanistan strategy with (which, again, would speak volumes).

It's a basic mistake regarding fundamental knowledge about the topic. A topic that is incredibly important to any aspiring next President of the US.


Thalia wrote: Though explain why he insisted it was a video that sparked the attacks on the consulate? Obama is no foreign policy guru, he is Jimmy Carter all over again and he straight up lied about it, over and over, along with the rest of his administration.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/24/us-usa-benghazi-emails-idUSBRE89N02C20121024

Reuters is not a right-wing news organization.


This is an incredibly frustrating topic for me.
The reason I have been silent on it for quite a while is because I struggle to find anything productive to say without having to resort to "Trust me, this is the way it is, but I can't tell you why."

The right has been totally mischaracterizing this entire situation to the point of it being almost completely unrecognizable to those of us who actually WORK in that field and know people who were at the attacked diplomatic missions. It's like the black hole of hatred for Obama is warping reality around it with it's sheer gravity. And there is very little that can be done in the iterim until the full Accountability Review Board investigation is released to correct misconceptions without potentially compromising sensitive information.

All I can do is, for the sake of my sanity if nothing else, implore everyone to try to use a little bit of critical thinking.

Take your Reuters article, for example.
What does this article ACTUALLY say? What are the facts?

The facts are that SOMEONE...
SOMEWHERE....
CLAIMING to be a representative of a certain terrorist organization...
(is he really? Just trying to look cool?)
claimed ON FACEBOOK...
that that terrorist organization was responsible...
(was it? maybe just trying to piggy-back off of the events to try and build up it's own prestige? What motivation would it have to only NOW claim responsibility, and to do so over Facebook of all places?)

All these assertions need to be vetted in order for the claim to hold any weight. The Reuters article doesn't even take a stance on the matter, merely reports that the claim was made.

Yet somehow you jumped from that to the President of the United States, his entire administration (not to mention ME), and our entire intelligence network, are ALL bald-faced liars.
You are giving the entire United States Government less weight in their integrity than some random foreigner on Facebook. That is an absolutely astonishing, extraordinary claim.


And that isn't even touching the fact that:
-The attack was motivated by the video
-The attack was a pre-planned operation executed by a terrorist organization
...are NOT mutually exclusive statements!

Republicans (and I don't hold them in any special censure for this, the Dems would probably do the same if the situation was reversed) have been so desperate to find something damning out of this situation in order to turn Obama into Jimmy Carter when the two aren't even remotely comparable that it's reached the point of getting rediculous.

So please, I beg you, just THINK before you jump to conclusions. Wait for the investigation report to conclude.

A good link:
http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/u ... Final1.pdf
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:49 am

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Screw reality, my prejudice-induced fantasy that I just made up is so much better.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Malthrax » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:00 pm

Perception *IS* reality, and the perceptions among many is that the President is (a) more interested in his re-election campaign than he is in [making it appear that he is] doing his job and (b) more interested in attempting to discredit Mitt Romney than he is in touting his own accomplishments.



The entire campaign has boiled down to:
Mitt Romney: More Jobs
Barack Obama: Free contraceptives

Apparently, Mitt wants us to go back to work, and Barack wants us to go fuck ourselves.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:24 pm

Malthrax wrote:The entire campaign has boiled down to:
Mitt Romney: More Jobs
Barack Obama: Free contraceptives

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Re: Election 2012

Postby Aubade » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:31 pm

Klaudandus wrote:
Malthrax wrote:The entire campaign has boiled down to:
Mitt Romney: More Jobs
Barack Obama: Free contraceptives

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That summarizes my thoughts exactly. Or something close to this.

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Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:38 pm

Perception *IS* reality, and the perceptions among many is that the President is (a) more interested in his re-election campaign than he is in [making it appear that he is] doing his job and (b) more interested in attempting to discredit Mitt Romney than he is in touting his own accomplishments.


This is true. And Obama has always been pretty bad at taking credit for his accomplishments and framing the public perception.
He came in with the rather naive idea that he just needed to get the policy right, and he would be judged based on that.

A classic example is the Stimulus.
When crafting a combination of tax breaks and project spending, Obama went to the economists to find out what they thought the most effective stimulus would be, and for the most part that is what ended up in the bill.

The economists told him that, based on scientific experiments, if people get a tax break in one big chunk, they are likely to save it rather than spend it, which doesn't help the economy at all. So, instead of one big refund credit in April, the Stimulus tax breaks were spread out over the year to trickle into each paycheck; resulting in people actually spending the money because they didn't notice it. Good stimulus.

But the problem was exactly that; they didn't notice it. Good economics, bad politics.

More than 85% of working Americans got substantial tax breaks as a part of the ARRA, and later stimulus bills, but a similarly large percentage believe (incorrectly) that they saw no personal benefit from the stimulus.
The Republicans have successfully framed the entire stimulus program which undeniably saved the US (and by extension, the global) economy from total disaster as being composed entirely of Solyndra (more on that in another post) and bank bailouts. This disconnect from reality has been so successful, that Democrats are afraid to even use the word stimulus at all, let alone tout it as one of their accomplishments.


This is one of the things I like about Obama. He has obvious respect for the data.
And he's honestly kind of a bad politician, because he has grossly overestimated how much the American electorate gives a shit about the truth.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Aubade » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:45 pm

What I fear is anyone who honestly 100% believes Mitt Romney will help the economy, or create more jobs. I don't see it happening at all.

EDIT: Actually, he WILL create new jobs. The top 1% of Taxpayers will need to hire more accountants to handle all the extra money they'll be rakin' in.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:16 pm

That's exactly it. The DATA shows that jobs and the overall economy are trending upwards.

Whoever wins this election get's to pretend that it was due to their policies and take credit for it, which is why things are so hotly contested.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Amirya » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:18 pm

Warning: Possibly too graphic for those who aren't iron-stomached.

Malthrax wrote:The entire campaign has boiled down to:
Mitt Romney: More Jobs
Barack Obama: Free contraceptives

Apparently, Mitt wants us to go back to work, and Barack wants us to go fuck ourselves.

I just have to comment on this because equating birth control only to wild perverted monkey sex really irritates the fuck out of me (and as I've never heard anything about free contraceptives also equating to free condoms, I'm going on the idea it's on pills).

Do women use birth control to help prevent pregnancies? Sure, no dispute there. There are also women who use birth control for hormonal regulation because our bodies are just plain fucked up. I used to be one of those women.

I had dealt with a bunch of ignorant fuckwit doctors whenever I went and said, "Hey, I'm not having a normal menstrual cycle. In fact, I'm more likely to have a menstrual cycle once a year than once a month. And honestly, with all that happens during said cycle - breath stealing cramps that cause me to not work for the entire time; heavy blood flow that causes me to soak the overnight pads in under two hours; and the thick, slimy, nasty blood clots that slide right out - I don't think that's normal."

And every single time, "well, we don't know precisely what it is. Just take these pills and it'll regulate you."

I asked them, "in your opinion, is it PCOS?"

"No no, we're sure it's not that."

So, having the professional opinion, I'd go and get those birth control pills. And yes, it did regulate me back to a normal 'lighter' flow. It also had another side effect - I turned into Super Scary Homicidal Bitch. I was completely unreasonable in perfectly reasonable moments; minor irritants blew up the worst way possible. I dislike children, especially the whiny crying raised pitch that they do (I don't even care if they're tired or hungry or just plain bratty) - when I was taking those pills to regulate my cycle, I would even have daydreams about taking the sharpest paring knife I could find, and peeling the skin from those brats' faces just to give them an excuse to whine and cry.

But once I quit the pills, I went back to the heavier and uglier flows; I also went back to just wanting to hit the parents of the whiny kids.

This whole thing started when I was 18, and went all the way until I was 31. I'm sure the times I was on the pill was a lot less pleasant for my ex than when I was off. When I was 31, I finally had decent enough health insurance to go to Mayo Clinic. In under 5 minutes, the gynecologist agreed it was PCOS, because I had all the physical symptoms. He asked about if I'd ever used birth control; it turns out, I'm apparently intolerant to most pills because of the estrogen content (the end result of this visit was determining that I had developed cancer).

And this is more of a lecture than I'd intended, but my roundabout point is that birth control pills are used for more than just birth control, and because of that, not every woman can use the same pill. So any arguments for "go to walmart and buy your own, it's only $10," is entirely wrong and stupid.

(And, I guess, the assumption that birth control pills are used solely for fucking like wild rabid monkeys are also wrong and stupid.)
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Levantine » Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:15 pm

Amirya wrote:I had dealt with a bunch of ignorant fuckwit doctors whenever I went and said, "Hey, I'm not having a normal menstrual cycle. In fact, I'm more likely to have a menstrual cycle once a year than once a month. And honestly, with all that happens during said cycle - breath stealing cramps that cause me to not work for the entire time; heavy blood flow that causes me to soak the overnight pads in under two hours; and the thick, slimy, nasty blood clots that slide right out - I don't think that's normal."


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Re: Election 2012

Postby Thalia » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:00 pm

Aubade wrote:What I fear is anyone who honestly 100% believes Mitt Romney will help the economy, or create more jobs. I don't see it happening at all.

EDIT: Actually, he WILL create new jobs. The top 1% of Taxpayers will need to hire more accountants to handle all the extra money they'll be rakin' in.



Sorry for saying anything, I rather just keep to myself now and not argue over the internet :P
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Skye1013 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:21 pm

Thalia wrote:comments like yours take away the human faces behind those who actually "Pay" taxes.

Not exactly sure what you mean by this... just because I get a rebate each year when filing my taxes doesn't mean I'm not paying taxes.
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