Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Election 2012

Postby Koatanga » Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:45 pm

Republicans are generally in favour of big business and reducing the influence of the federal government. The government basically exists for defense and infrastructure support, and beyond that should let people live their lives without interference. They prefer a survival-of-the-fittest mentality, and probably represent more of a true democracy - let the majority decide what's right and what's wrong. This does tend to favour a more discriminatory society, however, because beliefs that go against the majority opinion tend to be suppressed. So they are conservative in the sense of "we don't want to establish new laws to protect people - the old ones are just fine".

The basic idea is you are who you are, and through your own efforts you will make your life what it will be.

Democrats tend to extend the government's role as protector beyond military defense, and into areas like health care, literacy, and social equality. Democrats seek to protect minority causes from being steamrolled by majority rule, and hence tend become the champions of human rights issues, particularly where a minority group or opinion is being suppressed by the majority. Rather than conserving the old ways, they want laws and programs to right wrongs and combat social injustice and inequality.

The basic idea is that all men need to have an equal opportunity to reach their potential without being held back by birth or circumstance.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:06 pm

Malthrax wrote:Replace "women" with "liberals", and I agree 100%:
Our country might have been better off if it was just conservatives voting. There is nothing worse than a bunch of mean, hateful liberals. They are diabolical in how they can skewer a person.

Don't want liberals voting so we can have an idiot like Romney in the white house?

To be fair, I'm not supporting Obama. I fall under the camp of "almost anyone would be better than Romney."
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Aubade » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:07 pm

Am I the only person getting sick and tired of all this crap about the consulate attack? Yes, It was sad that we lost a great ambassador and other americans. Wether or not it was a terrorist attack, exactly who did it etc. That's government military information. Exactly what they say on the first few days/weeks/months while they're still trying to figure out all the information, what the next steps are etc. Is most likely in any other situation to be classified information. We were informed of the attack, informed of the loss. That's all in an active situation that I would want to know. I don't need to know the details of an ACTIVE MILITARY SITUATION. And the politicizing of this whole thing is making me sick.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:44 pm

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Also, someone on twitter
"Dear Jesus.My wife and I can't make a baby. Can you please send someone to rape her?" #DesperateRepublicanPrayers
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:10 pm

Aubade wrote:Am I the only person getting sick and tired of all this crap about the consulate attack? Yes, It was sad that we lost a great ambassador and other americans. Wether or not it was a terrorist attack, exactly who did it etc. That's government military information. Exactly what they say on the first few days/weeks/months while they're still trying to figure out all the information, what the next steps are etc. Is most likely in any other situation to be classified information. We were informed of the attack, informed of the loss. That's all in an active situation that I would want to know. I don't need to know the details of an ACTIVE MILITARY SITUATION. And the politicizing of this whole thing is making me sick.


What bothers me is republicans whitewashing their history...

1983: Bomb Blast At U.S. Embassy In Beirut Killed More Than 60, Including 17 Americans
1983: Car Bomb Damaged U.S. Embassy In Kuwait
1987: Car Bomb Exploded Outside U.S. Embassy In Italy
1990: Palestinian Guerrillas Attempted To Attack U.S. Embassy In Tel Aviv
1998: Terrorist Bombs Near U.S. Embassies In Kenya, Tanzania Injured More Than 1,000 And Killed More Than 60, Including Eight Americans (because its fair to throw in Clinton as well)
2002: U.S. Consulate In Karachi, Pakistan, Attacked; 10 Killed, 51 Injured
2004: U.S. Embassy Bombed In Uzbekistan
2004: Gunmen Stormed U.S. Consulate In Saudi Arabia
2006: Armed Men Attacked U.S. Embassy In Syria
2007: Grenade Launched Into U.S. Embassy In Athens
2008: Rioters Set Fire To U.S. Embassy In Serbia
2008: Ten People Killed In Bombings At U.S. Embassy In Yemen

Not saying criticism is not deserved regarding what happened at Benghazi, but republicans shouldn't be throwing stones while living in a glass house
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Torquemada » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:19 pm

Fair is fair. Can we call the Fort Hood shooting a terrorist act now? It's been 3 years, and the victims and families are getting fucked because it isn't considered one by the government.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:36 pm

I think that largely depends... was he shooting up the place because of an affiliation with AQ and/or other terrorist groups, or was he just a disgruntled worker? If it's the latter... then do school shootings also qualify as acts of terrorism? I think it all comes down to "where to we draw the line?"
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:39 pm

Stepping away from the upcoming US elections... this cracked article is awesome, though the title is arguable, based on your definition of "crazy."

Snake (and any other Brazilians), how do you like the elections down there?

http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/the- ... than-usas/
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:47 pm

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Re: Election 2012

Postby Shoju » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:41 pm

Klaudandus wrote:http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/10/25/a-fan-letter-to-certain-conservative-politicians/

This made me lol



I'm not sure why you LOL'd, but that is quite possibly the most fantastic piece I have read regarding the idiocy that is the Republican's "Year of Rape" that they have had this year.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:52 pm

I lol'd because it was that or feel impotent at the absurdity/ignorance/dissonance Republicans display when it comes to abortion...

And now I feel impotent... thanks for bringing me down back to earth, now I gotta go punch a republican to feel better.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Shoju » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:00 pm

Klaudandus wrote:I lol'd because it was that or feel impotent at the absurdity/ignorance/dissonance Republicans display when it comes to abortion...

And now I feel impotent... thanks for bringing me down back to earth, now I gotta go punch a republican to feel better.


Sorry, I didn't mean to make you feel bad, I just wasn't sure what the LOL was from, that maybe I was missing something. I applaud the writer. What a fantastic way to tie a bow on the topic, and put it into terms that are very easy to understand.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Malthrax » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:29 pm

Klaudandus wrote:... now I gotta go punch a republican to feel better.


You didn't punch him. Government punched him for you.


On a related note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6G3nwhPuR4 I guess it proves the adage, "Once you've had Barack, you'll never go back".
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Melathys » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:56 pm

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Re: Election 2012

Postby Aubade » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:59 pm

Maybe I'm Biased, but I saw that video and said okay, I see it as a good thing. He's still standing for the things he wanted 4 years ago, and doesn't feel satisfied with the current progress he's made in 4 years, and wants to keep doing them.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Melathys » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:11 pm

thats exactly what my wife said "at least he's not flip flopping."
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Lightbeard » Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:52 am

Skye1013 wrote:Stepping away from the upcoming US elections... this cracked article is awesome, though the title is arguable, based on your definition of "crazy."

Snake (and any other Brazilians), how do you like the elections down there?

http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/the- ... than-usas/


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Re: Election 2012

Postby Delphineas » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:20 am

I think I picked up on the tone of that rape article quick enough to not get too upset about it. But the comments...I made the mistake of being curious about a link. Rape babies for Romney gave me chills.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:52 am

Thalia wrote:"It bugged me that Romney mispronounced Pashtuns, the primary ethnic group in Afghanistan as "Pash-tons" (correct is "Pash-toons"). It's the kind of mistake that you would NEVER make if you had ever actually been briefed by an expert on the country. To those of us who have been-there-done-that, it made him look like he had based his Afghanistan ideas on reading the wikipedia page 10 minutes before the debate.
Obama, by contrast, pronounced Pakistan ("Pa-key-stan") correctly, which is rare for Americans."

Wow that is so nit-picky, what about when Obama kept calling people CORPSMEN...over and over again at a ceremony. I often mispronounce things...you should see how people look at me when I mispronounce MANGA...it's like they give me the laser eyes of death lol.

For those standards then Obama is the best at being "briefed" well enough to be able to do the important things like pronounce Pashtun correct.


I only brought it up because it is an indicator of the kind of people who are advising Romney on his Foreign Policy strategy. Specifically, people who sit in "think-tanks" and only know what they have read, but consider themselves to be self-declared "experts". Put another way; people who don't know what they are talking about.

It may seem nit-picky, but if you think about it, there are only two reasons to make that mistake:
1)Romney had only ever seen the word in print, never actually spoken in conversation (which would speak volumes).
2)He was repeating a mispronounciation used by whoever he had discussed Afghanistan strategy with (which, again, would speak volumes).

It's a basic mistake regarding fundamental knowledge about the topic. A topic that is incredibly important to any aspiring next President of the US.


Thalia wrote: Though explain why he insisted it was a video that sparked the attacks on the consulate? Obama is no foreign policy guru, he is Jimmy Carter all over again and he straight up lied about it, over and over, along with the rest of his administration.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/24/us-usa-benghazi-emails-idUSBRE89N02C20121024

Reuters is not a right-wing news organization.


This is an incredibly frustrating topic for me.
The reason I have been silent on it for quite a while is because I struggle to find anything productive to say without having to resort to "Trust me, this is the way it is, but I can't tell you why."

The right has been totally mischaracterizing this entire situation to the point of it being almost completely unrecognizable to those of us who actually WORK in that field and know people who were at the attacked diplomatic missions. It's like the black hole of hatred for Obama is warping reality around it with it's sheer gravity. And there is very little that can be done in the iterim until the full Accountability Review Board investigation is released to correct misconceptions without potentially compromising sensitive information.

All I can do is, for the sake of my sanity if nothing else, implore everyone to try to use a little bit of critical thinking.

Take your Reuters article, for example.
What does this article ACTUALLY say? What are the facts?

The facts are that SOMEONE...
SOMEWHERE....
CLAIMING to be a representative of a certain terrorist organization...
(is he really? Just trying to look cool?)
claimed ON FACEBOOK...
that that terrorist organization was responsible...
(was it? maybe just trying to piggy-back off of the events to try and build up it's own prestige? What motivation would it have to only NOW claim responsibility, and to do so over Facebook of all places?)

All these assertions need to be vetted in order for the claim to hold any weight. The Reuters article doesn't even take a stance on the matter, merely reports that the claim was made.

Yet somehow you jumped from that to the President of the United States, his entire administration (not to mention ME), and our entire intelligence network, are ALL bald-faced liars.
You are giving the entire United States Government less weight in their integrity than some random foreigner on Facebook. That is an absolutely astonishing, extraordinary claim.


And that isn't even touching the fact that:
-The attack was motivated by the video
-The attack was a pre-planned operation executed by a terrorist organization
...are NOT mutually exclusive statements!

Republicans (and I don't hold them in any special censure for this, the Dems would probably do the same if the situation was reversed) have been so desperate to find something damning out of this situation in order to turn Obama into Jimmy Carter when the two aren't even remotely comparable that it's reached the point of getting rediculous.

So please, I beg you, just THINK before you jump to conclusions. Wait for the investigation report to conclude.

A good link:
http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/u ... Final1.pdf
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:49 am

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Screw reality, my prejudice-induced fantasy that I just made up is so much better.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Malthrax » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:00 pm

Perception *IS* reality, and the perceptions among many is that the President is (a) more interested in his re-election campaign than he is in [making it appear that he is] doing his job and (b) more interested in attempting to discredit Mitt Romney than he is in touting his own accomplishments.



The entire campaign has boiled down to:
Mitt Romney: More Jobs
Barack Obama: Free contraceptives

Apparently, Mitt wants us to go back to work, and Barack wants us to go fuck ourselves.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:24 pm

Malthrax wrote:The entire campaign has boiled down to:
Mitt Romney: More Jobs
Barack Obama: Free contraceptives

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Re: Election 2012

Postby Aubade » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:31 pm

Klaudandus wrote:
Malthrax wrote:The entire campaign has boiled down to:
Mitt Romney: More Jobs
Barack Obama: Free contraceptives

Image


That summarizes my thoughts exactly. Or something close to this.

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Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:38 pm

Perception *IS* reality, and the perceptions among many is that the President is (a) more interested in his re-election campaign than he is in [making it appear that he is] doing his job and (b) more interested in attempting to discredit Mitt Romney than he is in touting his own accomplishments.


This is true. And Obama has always been pretty bad at taking credit for his accomplishments and framing the public perception.
He came in with the rather naive idea that he just needed to get the policy right, and he would be judged based on that.

A classic example is the Stimulus.
When crafting a combination of tax breaks and project spending, Obama went to the economists to find out what they thought the most effective stimulus would be, and for the most part that is what ended up in the bill.

The economists told him that, based on scientific experiments, if people get a tax break in one big chunk, they are likely to save it rather than spend it, which doesn't help the economy at all. So, instead of one big refund credit in April, the Stimulus tax breaks were spread out over the year to trickle into each paycheck; resulting in people actually spending the money because they didn't notice it. Good stimulus.

But the problem was exactly that; they didn't notice it. Good economics, bad politics.

More than 85% of working Americans got substantial tax breaks as a part of the ARRA, and later stimulus bills, but a similarly large percentage believe (incorrectly) that they saw no personal benefit from the stimulus.
The Republicans have successfully framed the entire stimulus program which undeniably saved the US (and by extension, the global) economy from total disaster as being composed entirely of Solyndra (more on that in another post) and bank bailouts. This disconnect from reality has been so successful, that Democrats are afraid to even use the word stimulus at all, let alone tout it as one of their accomplishments.


This is one of the things I like about Obama. He has obvious respect for the data.
And he's honestly kind of a bad politician, because he has grossly overestimated how much the American electorate gives a shit about the truth.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Aubade » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:45 pm

What I fear is anyone who honestly 100% believes Mitt Romney will help the economy, or create more jobs. I don't see it happening at all.

EDIT: Actually, he WILL create new jobs. The top 1% of Taxpayers will need to hire more accountants to handle all the extra money they'll be rakin' in.
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