Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:35 am

Sagara wrote:It really feels like it's mostly the Rep's fault for being in such a though position. Right now, they got a massive angle of attack which IS their core concept: 8 years of Obama, and the economy is barely breathing again (yes, it's a bit of hyperbole, and ignoring a lot of factor, but close enough to get the voters)

Seriously, a "don't mess with social stuff, focus on internal reform and savings on public spending" approach feels like the best line of offense - if only they didn't need the support of massive influence groups that really like it when the government spends big... right in their pockets.

Those things only work for the few fence-sitters who may be influenced by policies.

They need to do some serious ass-kissing of the voting blocs if they want to swing the numbers. What would it hurt if they flipped on life-begins-at-conception and allowed women to make decisions about their own bodies? If the conservative Christians get pissed off, it's not like they're going to vote for the democrats. Same for courting the black or Latino votes - can you see all the bigots swapping sides to vote for the white chick because the Romney party stopped treating Hispanic citizens like crap? Not gonna happen.

If the Republicans un-hitched the party platform from the religious right and stood for economic conservatism instead of Christian fundamentalism, it could potentially become an attractive thing to vote for again. Might take some time, but in the mean time the Christian fundamentalists are not going anywhere - they'll still vote Republican because the alternative is even worse to them.

A Republican party based on economic conservatism, fair-market capitalism and largely libertarian social views could go far.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:26 am

Koatanga wrote:
Sagara wrote: If the conservative Christians get pissed off, it's not like they're going to vote for the democrats. [...]
Might take some time, but in the mean time the Christian fundamentalists are not going anywhere - they'll still vote Republican because the alternative is even worse to them.


Thats where you miss the point. They won't vote republican, they'll not vote, which hurts the party even more, because they have to gain a lot more ground on the democrats turf.

Besides, its interesting how the discussion the last 5-10 years has become about moving policies to gain voters (not just you or here, but political talking heads view it as the right strategy in politics)...

Whatever happened to a political party having values and goals (politics is what we want to do with what we get to 'control') and having the voters be educated on that and if you win, great, you have enough voters behind you to claim a mandate for changing things, if you don't well the other parties (party) has the mandate (it gets particularly irritating in multiparty countries, as it actually promotes a 2 party solution, because you can be either for or against on any hot button issue according to news.

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:07 am

I don't think it would be good for internal American politics for a republican to get elected to office until the party as a whole gets over its mass crazy.

Seriously, the American right needs to debark from the crazy train at the next possible stop (or sooner. Preferably when the train is going over a rickety old bridge).

I ALSO don't think Hilary should be elected in 2016. What I'm advocating is a return to the "rich white guy" presidential office seatwarmer until the right stops being so fucking extreme. We can't handle another 4-8 years of congressional deadlock and general tomfuckery.

If ANY of the candidates in 2016 make it part of their platform to get the VA fully funded and start fulfilling America's promises to our veterans though, whether they're republican, democrat, independent, or hell - even the American Nazi Party - that candidate gets my vote by default. That right there is my own personal pet issue.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:22 pm

Nooska wrote:Whatever happened to a political party having values and goals (politics is what we want to do with what we get to 'control') and having the voters be educated on that and if you win, great, you have enough voters behind you to claim a mandate for changing things, if you don't well the other parties (party) has the mandate (it gets particularly irritating in multiparty countries, as it actually promotes a 2 party solution, because you can be either for or against on any hot button issue according to news.

That's what baffles me about the Republicans currently. Their business policies are all about making the rich richer so they have the money to employ the poor in classic Reganomics-based trickle-down theory, but they hitched themselves to the religious right who theoretically believe that which you do to the least of Christ's people, you do unto Him.

One the one hand they promote minimal government and economic laissez-faire, while on the other they want to impose a set of social laws from thousands of years ago.

The concepts simply don't reconcile, which I think is at least partly why the party is so bat-crap crazy.

To appoint a leader, they have to find someone who believes simultaneously in all of it. He has to be educated enough to be a shrewd businessman, yet must dismiss the 97% of the scientific community who believe in global warming. He has to believe in the Christian God and then completely ignore the teachings of Jesus. He has to support a minimalist government that seeks to control what happens in your bedroom. He has to promote economic survival-of-the-fittest while espousing Creationism. And he has to do all that while appearing to be 100% convinced that all of the opposing viewpoints are not only reconcilable, but in fact belong together.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Sagara » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:10 pm

Koatanga wrote:That's what baffles me about the Republicans currently. Their business policies are all about making the rich richer so they have the money to employ the poor in classic Reganomics-based trickle-down theory, but they hitched themselves to the religious right who theoretically believe that which you do to the least of Christ's people, you do unto Him.

One the one hand they promote minimal government and economic laissez-faire, while on the other they want to impose a set of social laws from thousands of years ago.

The concepts simply don't reconcile, which I think is at least partly why the party is so bat-crap crazy.

To appoint a leader, they have to find someone who believes simultaneously in all of it. He has to be educated enough to be a shrewd businessman, yet must dismiss the 97% of the scientific community who believe in global warming. He has to believe in the Christian God and then completely ignore the teachings of Jesus. He has to support a minimalist government that seeks to control what happens in your bedroom. He has to promote economic survival-of-the-fittest while espousing Creationism. And he has to do all that while appearing to be 100% convinced that all of the opposing viewpoints are not only reconcilable, but in fact belong together.


I don't think that's hard, actually. There are enough observable variation of Christianism from the basic Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox split to the more batshit insane "Alien Jesus" out there. Of COURSE there is an interpretation of the Books that will reconcile it, kind of rule 34 for religion. I mean, this exists.

The harder part (and the one they probably keep stumbling on) is managing to do it without looking like a) a quackjob that stands by some weird interpretation of the books (see Herman Cain), or b) a hypocrite believer.

I've re-though my idea that the Reps need a pure economics, and I'm really sticking to it. Romney was their best bet (for what it was worth) and with about 47% less awkward on social issues, he probably had the potential to turn the tables. If only they hadn't spend a near-decade scaring off the women/blacks/hispanos.

They're too scattered - Bible thumpers right, libertarians center, and reformers left and nobody seems to get along except in their shared hatred of the Dems, so, yeah, obviously, an alliance of screaming weirdoes is not *exactly* what inspires confidence. What they need right now is a visionnaire that can create a consistent plan that will appeal to the fringe, probably by going easy on the welfare bashing and focusing on structural reform and savings, and a deadlock on social rights on the Federal level, leaving it to the States to manage those, Ponce Pilating the whole crap.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:07 pm

I found this extremely amusing, given my recent posts questioning the deification of soldiers:

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:33 am

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:12 pm

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101819065

In a dramatic split decision, two federal appeals panels disagreed Tuesday on the legality of Obamacare subsidies that gave billions of dollars to help 4.7 million people buy insurance on HealthCare.gov.

A panel of the appeals court that covers Washington, D.C., ruled 2-1 that the subsidies were and are illegal if issued through that federal exchange, as opposed to one set up by a state.

But about two hours later, a Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel ruled 3-0 in another case that the subsidies are legal for people who buy plans on HealthCare.gov, which the federal government operates in 36 states.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:48 pm

Aren't the appellate courts region-based instead of having one higher than the other? Like, the ninth circuit court of appeals handles cases in one area and the third circuit court of appeals handles cases in another area?

If that's the case, then it shouldn't be too surprising if sometimes the appellate courts don't agree on something - especially a hot button issue.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:16 pm

In other news, at least the Hobby Lobby did one thing right (even if it was only accidentally):

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/07 ... -abortion/
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Ironshield » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:33 am

Fivelives wrote:In other news, at least the Hobby Lobby did one thing right (even if it was only accidentally):

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/07 ... -abortion/

I can see what they're trying to do there... but I can also imagine one or two things that could go wrong for your organisation if you decide to align with Satanists. Talk about "feeding the trolls"!
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:46 am

Members of the Temple of Satan are encouraging all women who share their belief in medical accuracy to seek their own exemption from these laws, even if they don’t personally identify as Satanists.


You gotta admit it shows what kind of world we're in when the satanists care more about women's health than some christians, specially when they pull shit like this: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/eu ... -1.1861745 (a polish friend pointed me towards this article days ago)
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:32 am

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:14 am

I honestly don't see a reason for a law banning doctors from asking about gun ownership - mainly because I don't see any profesionally relevant reason for a doctor to ask about that.
I find myself (wonderously) in agreement with the court majority on this; gun safety is not a medical concern.

all that being said, I don't see how anyone can be opposed to regulating gun safety... - like requiring guns to be under supervision if not under lock and key; a far cry from european gun safety laws, but as we've established those would generally be a no-go in the US - simply require that guns be locked up (unloaded and seperate from ammunition, and with the breechblock (yes?) detached from any relevant weapons while locked up) if not carried by a person allowed to do so, or in transit to and from a place of use (hunting for example, though basic gun safety in regards to hunting requires you to transport your firearm unloaded and secured).
If a concern is rasied against locking up the guns due to in-home self protection, just require a simple lock that would keep out a child, and allow 1 loaded magazine to rest next to the gun, so you can unlock your drawer/chest/whatever, insert magazine and load.
That would be a lot better than having doctors (who, mind you, have no obvious training in regards to dispensing gun safety advice) asking questions. I know, my doctor wouldn't be one I would accept as an authority on gun safety - and having a doctor tell you "guns can be deadly to children" is just... well superflous.. I would hope


Make exceptions for permits that are necessary (like, according to TV and film, LEOs like to keep a loaded gun in their bedroom drawer...).
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:21 am

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