Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:44 am

In other news....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/ ... 1T20140704

Newsflash: The F-35 is shit.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:20 pm

Along with Aereo losing, which kind of dumbfounds me...is slingbox next? How about the whole, right to be erased from the internet thing?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:56 pm

Fridmarr wrote:Along with Aereo losing, which kind of dumbfounds me...is slingbox next? How about the whole, right to be erased from the internet thing?


The Merril Lynch CEO thing is the scariest thing so far of the right to be erased, because it's highly relevant to this day!
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:30 am

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:38 am

Obviously not my state, but I'd not be surprised if Texas heads this way on this matter

http://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania ... -drilling/
Two retirees from the Pennsylvania Department of Health say its employees were silenced on the issue of Marcellus Shale drilling.

One veteran employee says she was instructed not to return phone calls from residents who expressed health concerns about natural gas development.

“We were absolutely not allowed to talk to them,” said Tammi Stuck, who worked as a community health nurse in Fayette County for nearly 36 years.

Another retired employee, Marshall P. Deasy III, confirmed that.


http://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania ... employees/
Two weeks ago, when StateImpact Pennsylvania first reported on the buzzwords list and meeting form, the department’s answer to that question was no.

Since then, StateImpact Pennsylvania has obtained copies of the documents, which show that department employees needed high-level permission to attend forums on Marcellus Shale.

Agency officials confirm those documents are authentic.


http://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania ... -policies/
Documents obtained by StateImpact Pennsylvania also show that starting in 2011, community health employees were required to get high-level permission to attend meetings and forums on Marcellus Shale topics.

The Health Department initially denied the existence of both the drilling “buzzwords” list and the employee permission form. A spokeswoman called the two retired employees’ claims “erroneous.”

The department later acknowledged the existence of the documents, but said these policies were meant to guide–not silence– employees in responding to complaints.

After the press conference, Corbett spokesman Jay Pagni initially refused to comment on the matter, but later said the Governor’s office was not involved in creating the policies.


http://rt.com/usa/medical-gag-rule-risks-fracking-053/
Pennsylvania authorities have denied a doctor the right to challenge a so-called “medical gag rule” that prevents him and other physicians from warning the public about the health dangers associated with fracking.

Dr. Alfonso Rodriguez of Dallas, Pennsylvania filed a lawsuit against the state last year, asserting that Act 13 of 2012 forces medical professionals to enter “a vague confidentiality agreement” that prevents them from having a completely honest dialogue with patients.

Hydraulic fracking involves drilling through underground shale rock with the help of chemicals - many of them toxic - to release natural gas. Earlier this month, a research team out of Duke University examined Pennsylvania wastewater and found what they described as “alarmingly” high levels of radioactivity, salts, metals, and other potentially harmful sediments.

Yet the “medical gag rule” forbids doctors like Rodriguez from going into depth about the health problems that chemicals from fracking can cause. Critics have said the bill’s passage, and the court’s refusal to grant Dr. Rodriguez the right to speak freely with his patients, is an indication of just how entrenched the oil and gas lobby is in state politics.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:22 pm

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:50 pm

Rock, meet hard place. I'm not surprised this is the new issue, everyone knew it was coming as soon as SCOTUS ruled on the hobby lobby. That opened the door to exactly this kind of government sanctioned hate that drapes itself in the flag and screams "IT'S MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO HATE YOU SO FUCK OFF".

I have a feeling the best thing to do would be just to tell the hate groups to go fuck themselves. Conservatives already think Obama is the antichrist, and no amount of pandering is going to fix that - so at this point it'd just be digging himself up and burying himself an additional 6 feet deeper in republican eyes.

I expect absolutely nothing from Congress until 2pm, 2017 - except for more slander, libel, sedition, rabble-rousing hate speech and government shutdowns. It's going to happen AT LEAST until Obama is out of office, and god help us all if Hilary gets elected in 2016. 8 years of this sort of bickering we can sort of handle. But 12 years? 16 years of it? That's getting dangerous right there.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:00 pm

Fivelives wrote:Rock, meet hard place. I'm not surprised this is the new issue, everyone knew it was coming as soon as SCOTUS ruled on the hobby lobby. That opened the door to exactly this kind of government sanctioned hate that drapes itself in the flag and screams "IT'S MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO HATE YOU SO FUCK OFF".

I have a feeling the best thing to do would be just to tell the hate groups to go fuck themselves. Conservatives already think Obama is the antichrist, and no amount of pandering is going to fix that - so at this point it'd just be digging himself up and burying himself an additional 6 feet deeper in republican eyes.

I expect absolutely nothing from Congress until 2pm, 2017 - except for more slander, libel, sedition, rabble-rousing hate speech and government shutdowns. It's going to happen AT LEAST until Obama is out of office, and god help us all if Hilary gets elected in 2016. 8 years of this sort of bickering we can sort of handle. But 12 years? 16 years of it? That's getting dangerous right there.



The best thing was a Federal Judge, appointed by George HW Bush saying that SCOTUS should literally STFU and should have avoided taking this case in the first place.
http://www.theverge.com/2014/7/7/587727 ... obby-lobby
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Io.Draco » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:10 am

Oh look another fight in glorious 'Murica between liberals and conservatives. Should be fun seeing how the conservatives used the Supreme Court to bitch slap the liberals this time around. "Grabs popcorn"
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:56 pm

Fivelives wrote:I expect absolutely nothing from Congress until 2pm, 2017 - except for more slander, libel, sedition, rabble-rousing hate speech and government shutdowns. It's going to happen AT LEAST until Obama is out of office, and god help us all if Hilary gets elected in 2016. 8 years of this sort of bickering we can sort of handle. But 12 years? 16 years of it? That's getting dangerous right there.

I don't really see that it's avoidable if the conservatives keep alienating voters. Will they compete with Hillary, victim of philandering who rose above to show her own strength, for the female vote? How are they polling with blacks and Hispanics - any better than last time around? Reckon they'll get much of the gay vote?

Last I checked, there aren't enough straight white male voters to get someone elected.

To top it off, while the Clinton name is sullied with the whole Lewinsky affair, Bill was president for the America's last great economic boom. While coincidence does not necessitate causation, Hillary can trade on those memories of prosperity.

If the Republicans are running the same people who got destroyed last time, I don't see them winning.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:32 pm

http://youtu.be/zSQCH1qyIDo

a bit late, given this was before the hobby lobby decision, but still relevant
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:46 am

Koatanga wrote:If the Republicans are running the same people who got destroyed last time, I don't see them winning.


And that's going to continue the deadlock in Congress until the hard-line conservatives are either given their way or booted out of office. Both are equally unlikely.

Even so, consider that Hilary lost to Obama in the 2008 primaries. Democrats preferred a politically inexperienced candidate to a Clinton. I guess 8 years in the white house didn't trump vague promises of "change".

Hilary running in 2016 would face the wikileaks scandal. Add that to the general distaste for Bill Clinton's politics (repealing Glass-Stiegel what what?), plus the philandering in general, and it's a recipe for a losing second shot.

However, since most people are political morons and only listen to what talking heads have to say (liberal media wants to avoid linking the Clintons to Glass-Stiegel, and conservatives won't mention it because it benefits them very fucking much.) Hilary has a real shot in 2016. Which would be an absolute fucking disasterpiece of a capstone for the 21st century so far. What we need to do is get back to rich white guys in office until the next generation comes along - one that's willing to open the floor to new things. Political change is generational in nature, and unless some MAJOR campaign reform happens and Americans suddenly decide en masse to educate themselves what we need to do is wait for the current crop of do-nothing fuckbags to die of old age and let another generation take over.

Plus, the president doesn't really have the power over the American people anyway. It shouldn't fucking matter who sits in the oval office since the president's power is pretty limited in scope - by design. Unfortunately, it does matter to people who don't know any better; which is, sadly, damn near everyone.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Io.Draco » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:08 pm

I can understand why a Republican winning over a Democrat like Clinton be very good for internal american politics, I understand very well.

But I can only think what horrors await on a foreign policy level if the Republicans get back in the White House.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:58 pm

Core Republicans are going to vote Republican come hell or high water - that's as much a given as it is for core Democrats. The Reps will have the conservative Christian vote and Tea Party strongholds.

It's the rest of the people who make the race. Some of those people are simply middle-grounders who listen to the candidates and vote how they feel they should. However, many of those in the middle who could vote Republican have been alienated in recent years.

Though generally conservative and nearly 100% Christian (Catholic), Latino voters have been chased away in droves. Women's rights have been regularly opposed by the Republicans. The LGBTXYZBBQ community is likely to vote anti-Republican simply to oppose the conservative Christian members. I haven't seen anything in the past 4 years to indicate the Reps are courting the Black vote that they pretty much failed to capture last time.

All in all, I think it's the Dem's election to lose, particularly if they play up Hillary's diplomatic angle.

I hope I'm right, because I agree that turning the Republicans loose on foreign policy right now would be potentially disastrous.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Sagara » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:54 pm

It really feels like it's mostly the Rep's fault for being in such a though position. Right now, they got a massive angle of attack which IS their core concept: 8 years of Obama, and the economy is barely breathing again (yes, it's a bit of hyperbole, and ignoring a lot of factor, but close enough to get the voters)

Seriously, a "don't mess with social stuff, focus on internal reform and savings on public spending" approach feels like the best line of offense - if only they didn't need the support of massive influence groups that really like it when the government spends big... right in their pockets.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:35 am

Sagara wrote:It really feels like it's mostly the Rep's fault for being in such a though position. Right now, they got a massive angle of attack which IS their core concept: 8 years of Obama, and the economy is barely breathing again (yes, it's a bit of hyperbole, and ignoring a lot of factor, but close enough to get the voters)

Seriously, a "don't mess with social stuff, focus on internal reform and savings on public spending" approach feels like the best line of offense - if only they didn't need the support of massive influence groups that really like it when the government spends big... right in their pockets.

Those things only work for the few fence-sitters who may be influenced by policies.

They need to do some serious ass-kissing of the voting blocs if they want to swing the numbers. What would it hurt if they flipped on life-begins-at-conception and allowed women to make decisions about their own bodies? If the conservative Christians get pissed off, it's not like they're going to vote for the democrats. Same for courting the black or Latino votes - can you see all the bigots swapping sides to vote for the white chick because the Romney party stopped treating Hispanic citizens like crap? Not gonna happen.

If the Republicans un-hitched the party platform from the religious right and stood for economic conservatism instead of Christian fundamentalism, it could potentially become an attractive thing to vote for again. Might take some time, but in the mean time the Christian fundamentalists are not going anywhere - they'll still vote Republican because the alternative is even worse to them.

A Republican party based on economic conservatism, fair-market capitalism and largely libertarian social views could go far.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:26 am

Koatanga wrote:
Sagara wrote: If the conservative Christians get pissed off, it's not like they're going to vote for the democrats. [...]
Might take some time, but in the mean time the Christian fundamentalists are not going anywhere - they'll still vote Republican because the alternative is even worse to them.


Thats where you miss the point. They won't vote republican, they'll not vote, which hurts the party even more, because they have to gain a lot more ground on the democrats turf.

Besides, its interesting how the discussion the last 5-10 years has become about moving policies to gain voters (not just you or here, but political talking heads view it as the right strategy in politics)...

Whatever happened to a political party having values and goals (politics is what we want to do with what we get to 'control') and having the voters be educated on that and if you win, great, you have enough voters behind you to claim a mandate for changing things, if you don't well the other parties (party) has the mandate (it gets particularly irritating in multiparty countries, as it actually promotes a 2 party solution, because you can be either for or against on any hot button issue according to news.

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:07 am

I don't think it would be good for internal American politics for a republican to get elected to office until the party as a whole gets over its mass crazy.

Seriously, the American right needs to debark from the crazy train at the next possible stop (or sooner. Preferably when the train is going over a rickety old bridge).

I ALSO don't think Hilary should be elected in 2016. What I'm advocating is a return to the "rich white guy" presidential office seatwarmer until the right stops being so fucking extreme. We can't handle another 4-8 years of congressional deadlock and general tomfuckery.

If ANY of the candidates in 2016 make it part of their platform to get the VA fully funded and start fulfilling America's promises to our veterans though, whether they're republican, democrat, independent, or hell - even the American Nazi Party - that candidate gets my vote by default. That right there is my own personal pet issue.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:22 pm

Nooska wrote:Whatever happened to a political party having values and goals (politics is what we want to do with what we get to 'control') and having the voters be educated on that and if you win, great, you have enough voters behind you to claim a mandate for changing things, if you don't well the other parties (party) has the mandate (it gets particularly irritating in multiparty countries, as it actually promotes a 2 party solution, because you can be either for or against on any hot button issue according to news.

That's what baffles me about the Republicans currently. Their business policies are all about making the rich richer so they have the money to employ the poor in classic Reganomics-based trickle-down theory, but they hitched themselves to the religious right who theoretically believe that which you do to the least of Christ's people, you do unto Him.

One the one hand they promote minimal government and economic laissez-faire, while on the other they want to impose a set of social laws from thousands of years ago.

The concepts simply don't reconcile, which I think is at least partly why the party is so bat-crap crazy.

To appoint a leader, they have to find someone who believes simultaneously in all of it. He has to be educated enough to be a shrewd businessman, yet must dismiss the 97% of the scientific community who believe in global warming. He has to believe in the Christian God and then completely ignore the teachings of Jesus. He has to support a minimalist government that seeks to control what happens in your bedroom. He has to promote economic survival-of-the-fittest while espousing Creationism. And he has to do all that while appearing to be 100% convinced that all of the opposing viewpoints are not only reconcilable, but in fact belong together.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Sagara » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:10 pm

Koatanga wrote:That's what baffles me about the Republicans currently. Their business policies are all about making the rich richer so they have the money to employ the poor in classic Reganomics-based trickle-down theory, but they hitched themselves to the religious right who theoretically believe that which you do to the least of Christ's people, you do unto Him.

One the one hand they promote minimal government and economic laissez-faire, while on the other they want to impose a set of social laws from thousands of years ago.

The concepts simply don't reconcile, which I think is at least partly why the party is so bat-crap crazy.

To appoint a leader, they have to find someone who believes simultaneously in all of it. He has to be educated enough to be a shrewd businessman, yet must dismiss the 97% of the scientific community who believe in global warming. He has to believe in the Christian God and then completely ignore the teachings of Jesus. He has to support a minimalist government that seeks to control what happens in your bedroom. He has to promote economic survival-of-the-fittest while espousing Creationism. And he has to do all that while appearing to be 100% convinced that all of the opposing viewpoints are not only reconcilable, but in fact belong together.


I don't think that's hard, actually. There are enough observable variation of Christianism from the basic Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox split to the more batshit insane "Alien Jesus" out there. Of COURSE there is an interpretation of the Books that will reconcile it, kind of rule 34 for religion. I mean, this exists.

The harder part (and the one they probably keep stumbling on) is managing to do it without looking like a) a quackjob that stands by some weird interpretation of the books (see Herman Cain), or b) a hypocrite believer.

I've re-though my idea that the Reps need a pure economics, and I'm really sticking to it. Romney was their best bet (for what it was worth) and with about 47% less awkward on social issues, he probably had the potential to turn the tables. If only they hadn't spend a near-decade scaring off the women/blacks/hispanos.

They're too scattered - Bible thumpers right, libertarians center, and reformers left and nobody seems to get along except in their shared hatred of the Dems, so, yeah, obviously, an alliance of screaming weirdoes is not *exactly* what inspires confidence. What they need right now is a visionnaire that can create a consistent plan that will appeal to the fringe, probably by going easy on the welfare bashing and focusing on structural reform and savings, and a deadlock on social rights on the Federal level, leaving it to the States to manage those, Ponce Pilating the whole crap.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:07 pm

I found this extremely amusing, given my recent posts questioning the deification of soldiers:

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:33 am

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:12 pm

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101819065

In a dramatic split decision, two federal appeals panels disagreed Tuesday on the legality of Obamacare subsidies that gave billions of dollars to help 4.7 million people buy insurance on HealthCare.gov.

A panel of the appeals court that covers Washington, D.C., ruled 2-1 that the subsidies were and are illegal if issued through that federal exchange, as opposed to one set up by a state.

But about two hours later, a Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel ruled 3-0 in another case that the subsidies are legal for people who buy plans on HealthCare.gov, which the federal government operates in 36 states.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:48 pm

Aren't the appellate courts region-based instead of having one higher than the other? Like, the ninth circuit court of appeals handles cases in one area and the third circuit court of appeals handles cases in another area?

If that's the case, then it shouldn't be too surprising if sometimes the appellate courts don't agree on something - especially a hot button issue.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:16 pm

In other news, at least the Hobby Lobby did one thing right (even if it was only accidentally):

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/07 ... -abortion/
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