Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Io.Draco » Fri May 02, 2014 5:10 pm

Where do these utter mouth-breathing retards come from?


They exist everywhere in every country, but it's the US where they are very vocal because of well...high technological advancement + democracy.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Sat May 03, 2014 4:42 am

Amirya wrote:


Damnit, Klaud! And here I was thinking, "why, this weekend should be pretty good," and then I read that, and now I'm, all, "why, I am not surprised at all."

Where do these utter mouth-breathing retards come from?


Well, I also found an article about this Teatard that claims that giving women the right to vote was a bad idea because it promotes "family anarchy"
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/b ... y-together
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Amirya » Sat May 03, 2014 10:10 am

Someday, sir, I will find you in Texas, I will have an arsenal of wet noodles and hungry goats, and I will beat you with both...

Because now my brain hurts.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Sat May 03, 2014 12:35 pm

Amirya wrote:Someday, sir, I will find you in Texas, I will have an arsenal of wet noodles and hungry goats, and I will beat you with both...

Because now my brain hurts.


I am just a purveyor of stupid statements done by right wing crazies, not my fault there are so many of them. XD
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Sat May 03, 2014 1:21 pm

Klaudandus wrote:
Amirya wrote:Someday, sir, I will find you in Texas, I will have an arsenal of wet noodles and hungry goats, and I will beat you with both...

Because now my brain hurts.


I am just a purveyor of stupid statements done by right wing crazies, not my fault there are so many of them. XD

To be fair, there are equally many stupid statements done by left wing crazies...

(Says the socialist!)

ave I mentioned that during budget negotiations last year, the leftwing party wanted a law changed granting every old person the right to 2 baths a week, because they wanted to up the standard of care for the elderly?
Totally ignoring that most places the elderly get more than 2 baths a week today, and totally ignoring the fact that minium rights typically becomes standards in very short order ("We uphold the exact letter of the law, how can you complain?"), and also ignoring that any way you wrote that in a law, you would also be forced to give the elderly 2 baths a week (regardless of what the individual wanted "but it's the law", and that the right would extend to old people that don't recieve help (and don't need it).
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Io.Draco » Mon May 05, 2014 8:55 am

I find myself amazed a bit at the turn of events in Ukraine. I expected chaos, bloodshed and the like.

I however did not expect Ukraine to use Helicopter Gunships and Artillery against their own fucking people. Oh sure they are separatists but bloody hell what kind of morons bombs his own people in his own country's cities?!
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Mon May 05, 2014 10:16 am

At this point they are not merely seperatists, but insurgents.

What would you have them do? Thy have to uphold their sovereign claim by force of arms when people are taking up arms and rejecting it (use it or lose it, basically).
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Io.Draco » Mon May 05, 2014 12:20 pm

If you somehow think you will maintain a nation intact through sheer brute force then you are quite mistaken. It will only lead to devastation and bloodshed: See also Libya and Syria.

There is however a fundamental difference between those two countries and Ukraine. In both Syria and Libya you had protesters calling for the removal of their leaders, their trials and even execution from the very beginning before the army was sent in.

In Ukraine the crisis only began after the moronic Parliament in Kiev decided to ban the usage of the Russian language and that in conjunctions with anti-Russian rhetoric ( against ethnic russians inside Ukraine that is ) is what led to the Crimean situation and to the current situation in Eastern/Southern Ukraine. It is easy to forget the Crimeans begged the Russians for help, just as Eastern Ukranians are doing right now. The hard line response of Kiev makes it worse then either Assad or Gaddafi.

It could have all been avoided if the Parliament had acted to calm the East and South following Yanukovich's removal, since they were angry and rightly so at his removal. Granted with regards to Yanukovich he did the same mistake when violence broke out in Kiev...but for fuck sake even he stopped short of sending the army against his own people.

Now however? It's too late: Odessa was the tipping point where negotiations are not going to lead to anything more. The west in their idiocy instead of letting Russia steam roll in earlier and resolve the situation with little bloodshed instead decided they would support Kiev, support it's military operation and threaten Russia with the same kind of sanctions Iran was hit if they don't back down.

This is what you got as a result: Putin won't be stopped by sanctions, but he's probably figured he can wait long enough for the west to realize the idiocy and then roll in without sanctions affecting him.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Mon May 05, 2014 1:38 pm

"Letting Russia steam roll in" was never an option.

This is as much a war by proxy as any of the mutiple engagements during the actual cold war.


I ask again, what would you have the currently acknowledged Ukranian government do instead?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Io.Draco » Mon May 05, 2014 2:04 pm

Attempted to negotiate, and not needlessly provoke them. There was a possibility for it.

Letting Russia steam roll in" was never an option.

This is as much a war by proxy as any of the mutiple engagements during the actual cold war.


It will be, once civilians start dying the EU due to massive public pressure will back off and America won't act on sector sanctions against Russia on it's own thus leaving Putin to invade.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Mon May 05, 2014 2:09 pm

Io.Draco wrote:Attempted to negotiate, and not needlessly provoke them. There was a possibility for it.


Ukraine: Oh yes? What's that? You want me to hand over a peninsula with important ports over to you? sure... I'll get back to you on that.

Part of the problem is that Putin is always eyeing what other regions might be up for the taking given the makeup of the demographics, case in point, Moldova
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rimea.html
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Io.Draco » Mon May 05, 2014 2:56 pm

Ukraine: Oh yes? What's that? You want me to hand over a peninsula with important ports over to you? sure... I'll get back to you on that.


Part of the problem is western idiocy in thinking east Ukraine is Crimea, hint it's not. Crimea wanted to be part of Russia and asked for that, eastern Ukraine did not nor did Russia roll in marines there to take it.

Crimea was an autonomous republic part of Ukraine that decided to leave Ukraine and join Russia, end of discussion.

Part of the problem is that Putin is always eyeing what other regions might be up for the taking given the makeup of the demographics, case in point, Moldova
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rimea.html


More like Transnistria which has never been controlled by Moldova in it's history. Transinstria has it's own independent government with Russian peace keepers in the region. It is NOT Moldovan territory.

South Osetia and Abkhazia were said to be part of Georgia, small problem with that is that Georgian government never had control over them!
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon May 05, 2014 6:09 pm

http://ktla.com/2014/05/05/rialto-assig ... z30sp8CKDK

Are you serial?

Interim Superintendent Mohammad Z. Islam was set to talk with administrators to “assure that any references to the holocaust ‘not occurring’ will be stricken on any current or future Argumentative Research assignments,” a statement from district spokeswoman Syeda Jafri read.


Optics on this are amazing. I thought it was an Onion article.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Mon May 05, 2014 6:16 pm

i don't think i can facepalm hard enough...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Passionario » Tue May 06, 2014 1:22 am

Civil war is anything but civil.
Io.Draco wrote:Oh sure they are separatists but bloody hell what kind of morons bombs his own people in his own country's cities?!

Vladimir Putin, for one. Case in point, Second Chechen War.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Io.Draco » Tue May 06, 2014 10:02 am

Civil war is anything but civil.


Of course, but how one handles it is paramount to achieving stability after that.

Vladimir Putin, for one. Case in point, Second Chechen War.


I would hardly call the Chechens his people honestly. They had been independent for close to a decade, had fought and won a war with Russia in 94-96 and had gone into complete chaos following that war.

That said Chechnya would still have fallen into chaos if not for the fact Putin realized what was needed to stabilize, and stabilize it he did: While America's policies in Iraq and Afghanistan were failing hard Chechnya became more and more peaceful and stable. He also spent about 60 billion to rebuild it following the war and was smart enough to realize only a local could hold the peace so to speak.

In contrast to that what's happening in E. Ukraine could have been avoided.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Tue May 06, 2014 11:40 am

Io.Draco wrote:In contrast to that what's happening in E. Ukraine could have been avoided.

How?

You keep saying this, but the only option you've give is for the acknowledged governement of a sovereign state (Ukraine) to not claim the state's boundaries and sovereigncy.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue May 06, 2014 1:33 pm

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderic ... nnexation/

To make sure no one misses this:

Official Kremlin results: 97 percent of polled voters for annexation, turnout 83 percent, and 82 percent of total Crimean population voting in favor.

President’s Human Rights Council mid-point estimate: 55 percent of polled voters for annexation, turnout 40 percent, 22.5 percent of total Crimean population voting in favor.

A member of the Human Rights Council, Svetlana Gannushkina, talked about election fraud on Kanal 24 (as replayed on Ukrainian television), declaring that the Crimean vote “discredited Russia more than could be dreamed up by a foreign agent.”
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Tue May 06, 2014 2:31 pm

Klaudandus wrote:http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

To make sure no one misses this:

Official Kremlin results: 97 percent of polled voters for annexation, turnout 83 percent, and 82 percent of total Crimean population voting in favor.

President’s Human Rights Council mid-point estimate: 55 percent of polled voters for annexation, turnout 40 percent, 22.5 percent of total Crimean population voting in favor.

A member of the Human Rights Council, Svetlana Gannushkina, talked about election fraud on Kanal 24 (as replayed on Ukrainian television), declaring that the Crimean vote “discredited Russia more than could be dreamed up by a foreign agent.”

For some perspective:

2000 US Presidential election:

47.87% of popular vote for Bush, turnout 50.3%, 24% of total eligible voters voting for Bush. It was enough to elect a President.

Also keep in mind that for a 95% confidence level and a margin of error of 1% you only need to poll 9500 people out of a population of 1 million. 55% of 40 percent of registered voters gives you a confidence interval of around 0.1 at 95% confidence level. It's statistically significant.

I am not saying the Kremlin results are accurate, but even if you take the Human Rights Council vote as gospel (and as they say, figures don't lie but liars can figure), it's still a majority vote with a very high degree of statistical confidence.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue May 06, 2014 3:07 pm

...If you assume turnout was evenly spread among demographics, and ignore the fact that a significant opposed minority actively boycotted the poll.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Io.Draco » Tue May 06, 2014 3:52 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:...If you assume turnout was evenly spread among demographics, and ignore the fact that a significant opposed minority actively boycotted the poll.


Even if every Tatar boycotted it, which is nonsense, you would still be able to get the results. As for the ethnic Ukranians living in Crimea most are in favor of being in Russia.

How?

You keep saying this, but the only option you've give is for the acknowledged governement of a sovereign state (Ukraine) to not claim the state's boundaries and sovereigncy.


Before Crimea they could have worked to assure the East they will respect their ethnic rights, instead they spat on them with the Rada vote. After Crimea they could have sat down and negotiated with people to see what they want: Namely greater autonomy and federalization, instead they branded them terrorists.

There's plenty of things they could have done but they didn't.

Klaudandus: Oh let's quote a neo-conservative on Forbes who has made Putin to be akin to the devil who is citing a UKRANIAN news post. Just reading who wrote that article is enough for me to dismiss him, and you should to if you read any of his other articles. Also even if the report existed then it just an estimate. How many of the human rights council even gave a damn to send observers during the vote?

You don't think 80% of people can go vote when the very future of their country is on the line? Presidential elections are one thing and most people don't think a change of leadership will matter, joining another country? It sure as fuck matters.

Look at South Sudan turnout.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Brekkie » Tue May 06, 2014 5:08 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:http://ktla.com/2014/05/05/rialto-assignment-asking-to-students-to-question-holocaust-to-be-revised/#axzz30sp8CKDK

Are you serial?

Interim Superintendent Mohammad Z. Islam was set to talk with administrators to “assure that any references to the holocaust ‘not occurring’ will be stricken on any current or future Argumentative Research assignments,” a statement from district spokeswoman Syeda Jafri read.


Optics on this are amazing. I thought it was an Onion article.


That article pissed me off because it strongly implied that the holocaust-denial assignment was somehow connected to the Common Core. Which is totally false.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Tue May 06, 2014 5:15 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:...If you assume turnout was evenly spread among demographics, and ignore the fact that a significant opposed minority actively boycotted the poll.


Boycotting a poll - are they unclear of the concept of democracy? Not being facetious, I just want to know why they would cede the election result to the opposition like that. "I'm opposed to what they want to do so I'm going to make them win the poll." Lolwut? Makes no sense to me whatsoever.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Tue May 06, 2014 5:32 pm

Brekkie wrote:That article pissed me off because it strongly implied that the holocaust-denial assignment was somehow connected to the Common Core. Which is totally false.

For what it's worth I didn't understand it that way at all. What I got from the article is that Common Core requires students to make and defend an argument, which I am completely fine with as I believe critical thinking should be taught in schools.

What offended me was purely the subject chosen by the district. What idiot decided to make it about religion? The topic is rich in subjects from "is the moon landing faked" to "who really shot Kennedy" to the existence of one of a plethora of cryptids to life on other planets.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed May 07, 2014 12:37 am

Koatanga wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:...If you assume turnout was evenly spread among demographics, and ignore the fact that a significant opposed minority actively boycotted the poll.


Boycotting a poll - are they unclear of the concept of democracy? Not being facetious, I just want to know why they would cede the election result to the opposition like that. "I'm opposed to what they want to do so I'm going to make them win the poll." Lolwut? Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

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