Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Sagara » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:18 pm

I'd honestly expect a complete re-vote of either or both the Chambers.

I mean at this point, your government has already all but fallen, and is simply limping on until it gets recycled, and a new balance can be found. Might has well spare the pain and get that recycle right now.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:38 am

Skye1013 wrote:@Klaudandus: the reply from Kingston was severely disappointing...


It was so lame indeed.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:24 am

http://gawker.com/joe-lhota-doesnt-want ... 1446023260
“I am pro-choice; they are not. I am pro-gay rights as well as marriage equality; they are not. I have been outspoken about these issues over and over again."

"Do not lump me with the national Republicans. It’s unbecoming.”


This made me lol
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby cdan » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:47 am

Just reinforces the problem the GOP have - they don't represent traditional Republican values anymore. They've turned hard right and exited reality.

A lot of the traditional small government / local control policies make a lot of sense in the US, but their policy shifts towards the religious right when Reagan came in and now their massive jump even further since the tea party got involved in the primary process has basically made them unsupportable to people who counted themselves Republicans for years.

The Democrats are getting a significant amount of support from people who seem them as the least irrational choice. Which is hardly a ringing endorsement.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:31 am

Skye1013 wrote:
Firstly, just wanted to correct you slightly in that it's one-third that goes up for election each time.

Secondly, are you suggesting a revote of all of Congress or strictly those determined to be causing the issue? I'd think to be fair, you'd have to hold a complete revote, but perhaps allow the incumbents a chance to keep their seats. If the public decides that certain members are the problem, they'll get booted by popular vote (theoretically.)


Thanks for the correction, - House members are elected for.. 6 years and with elections every other year then?
Senate, iirc are for 6 years? (2 from each state, alternating?)

I would let the petitioner point to either house or senate or both.
I would let POTUS, Senate majority (by vote, not by party) and house majority (by vote, not by party) seperately have the right to petition SCOTUS to approve early elections.
And yes, I would require that the entire hourse or senate be put on early election - with 2 (or 3 or however the rotation is figured out, by your correction I have not fully understood it yet*) different term lengths to be voted for - either by ticket (each district having a ticket with 2 or 3* names on it) or by individual vote (X votes, X being the number to elect) and the X candidates with majority votes get elected for the terms in order of longest to shortest.

It would be an electoral upset in regards to how the house and/or senate was put together, but the US system (and where it has been exported to) are about the only democratic (or republican) systems in the world that doesn't allow for early elections.

The European systems (be they westminster or not) universally (I believe) have a system for early elections. Some places parliamentarism has caused that system to not work the way it was intentioned, but work nonetheless (when the prime/state minister is chosen by parliamentary majority, the early elections become just a political tool, as opposed to when prime/state minister (and other ministers) were chosen by the head of state (many european countries beiing monarchies still) as a check to the peoples representatives, being able to "poll the will of the people" as such, to see if the elected members of parliament were still representative of the peoples will in certain matters, and apart from that the responsibility to schedule elections at appropriate intervals.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:38 am

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:48 am

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 28817.html

The US surveillance of politicians in Mexico and Brazil is not a one-off. Internal documents show these countries' leaders represent important monitoring targets for the NSA, with both Mexico and Brazil ranking among the nations high on an April 2013 list that enumerates the US' surveillance priorities. That list, classified as "secret," was authorized by the White House and "presidentially approved," according to internal NSA documents.

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:30 pm

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:47 am

Update on the municipal elections, as requested.

Spent the night hanging posters. Met at 10 pm to distribute posters to the 2 cars that didn't have them already (me driving one), then on to the local party's "room" (political parties are associations by definition, and since they fall under the "people enlightenment law" (it isn't as communist as it sounds, quite the opposite), the municipality is required (by law) to furnish rooms for activities), sitting around with "the team" (9 people all together) planning where to go first, and having fun reminiscing over previous poster hanging nights.

The posters are allowed to go up from midnight, so at 11.30 pm (circa) we split up and go to oure respective parts of the city (it has 3 distinct areas - its made up of 2 centuries old villages, and a 'new' village thats sprung up near the beachside, and almost all the farmland has been converted to housing).
From midnight till about 5 am I was busy with 1 other person in our district (the one where we both live, so we know the roads and places people walk and not just drive) hanging posters. Thankfully we had preprinted posters this year (printed directly on plastic boards) so they were light and easy to wrangle. The first hour we get up ~8 posters, the second maybe 10.
By 5 am we had hit an average of 18 posters / hour for a total of 88(climbing lighting poles, making sure they stay etc). Posters have to be at least 7½ feet off the ground, and we want them higher than that.

I have to say I was shocked at how many posters went up between 1 am and 5 am (in general) - at midnight we saw 1 other party, hang 2 posters at the S-train station, where we also (more or less) started.

Home at 5:10 am, was kind enough to drive my teammate home, then write up where we had hung how many of each poster in an email to send to the other teams, so we all know where we have covered and how much, and then to bed.
I guess it was 6 before I fell asleep, and then I woke up, ready to get out of bed (well sort of) at 9 am.
I'm really going to be tired when we get company in a couple of hours - luckily our local butcher hooked me up with a brisket (I think - translating cuts of meat is always a bit tricky) that just has to be browned and the in the oven for 2 hours, so dinner is easy (and delicious).
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:03 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recall_election

In 2011, there were at least 150 recall elections in the United States. Of these, 75 officials were recalled, and nine officials resigned under threat of recall. Recalls were held in 17 states in 73 different jurisdictions. Michigan had the most recalls (at least 30). The year set a record for number of state legislator recall elections (11 elections) beating with previous one-year high (three elections). Three jurisdictions adopted the recall in 2011.[8]


So yeah, let's get on that. The White House online petition page should work for this? There's precedent for recall elections, even in the senate.

Edit: linked for convenience
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Brekkie » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:23 pm

Klaudandus wrote:http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nsa-hacked-email-account-of-mexican-president-a-928817.html

The US surveillance of politicians in Mexico and Brazil is not a one-off. Internal documents show these countries' leaders represent important monitoring targets for the NSA, with both Mexico and Brazil ranking among the nations high on an April 2013 list that enumerates the US' surveillance priorities. That list, classified as "secret," was authorized by the White House and "presidentially approved," according to internal NSA documents.

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I'm stationed at the US Embassy in Berlin right now. Spiegel just released a piece alleging that the NSA has been bugging Angela Merkel's cell phone.

It has been a challenging week at work.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:33 pm

I believe Spiegel mentioned this had been happening since 2010. Part of the problem was the WH statement that they are not doing it right now nor they will in the future, but did not deny it doing it in the past.

It's like if a girl would ask me if I'm seeing someone else right now, I could say no and it would be true, in spite of, lets say, seeing a different girl the night before.

That said, the electronic surveillance is so incredibly easy to defeat, provided you want to put in the effort -- just look at General Van Riper's tactics in the Millenium Challenge 2002, where he defeated the opposing team by using non-electronic means of communication -- The judges of the war game had to rewrite the rules in order to restrict what Van Riper could and could not do in order to defeat him the 2nd time around.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Sagara » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Honestly, even as an E.U. citizen, I find all the hubhub a bit depressing, but not why most would expect.

There's no way any serious official would be candid enough believe because we're "allies" with someone, they won't take any fast and safe tricks to gather intel on me. That might work in the lower rungs of us common plebes, but not that high...

And second, I have no faith that secret services in Europe aren't doing the same thing when some U.S. leak pops up, let alone when another E.U. country leak pops up.

And third, I'm wondering who they are trying to convince with the drama act. "Booh, you bad bad U.S. people, spying on people and all that! Bad!" More like "Welp, we screwed up in our security, we'll try and shore up the leak.", but hey, politics and honesty, milk and orange juice!
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Paxen » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:10 am

Klaudandus wrote:That said, the electronic surveillance is so incredibly easy to defeat, provided you want to put in the effort -- just look at General Van Riper's tactics in the Millenium Challenge 2002, where he defeated the opposing team by using non-electronic means of communication -- The judges of the war game had to rewrite the rules in order to restrict what Van Riper could and could not do in order to defeat him the 2nd time around.


Yikes, that's an awesome/terryfying story. The bit about communications isn't the critical part, though - the important stuff seems to be that carriers can't dodge, can't take a hit (and their defenses can be saturated by low tech attacks) and that attacks are too reliant on electronic signatures to find targets (a carrier can't go dark, a cruise missile site doesn't need an electronic signature). Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002 (And a random angry blog post: http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php ... =35&PAGE=1)
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:41 am

As a lower tier politician myself, I would be surprised (actually appalled) if the NSA was NOT trying to gather intelligence on world leader s(including allies) - the same goes for the european intelligence agencies.
I mean, we might be allies today, and we can't see any reason we wouldn't be tomorrow, but that IS after all the job of the intelligence agencies to know if something is up.

That there are diplomatic results when your spying on an ally is discovered also goes without saying (you shouldn't get caught with your hand in the cookie jar after all).

If I were to shine the spotlight one place in the Merkel tapping, I would point primarily at the german intelligence, who, I think, should be safeguarding this stuff and preventing tapping as far as possible.
How come the chancellor of one of the most influential european countries can have a regular cellphone without the IA saying its a problem?
Of course, if all she uses it for is personal calls an nonsecure discussions, fine, but she had better have a secured connection for anything sensitive, or the counter intelligence isn't doing its job.
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