Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:33 am

A plane, worth noting, that, under international conventions, is considered sovereign bolivian soil, and with diplomatic immmunity for those on board (imagine if AF1 was "forced" down under those circumstances - and ignore for a moment that none would dare, and that AF1 would likely ignore such instructions and continue on, while possibly requesting an escort from the nearest air base with US planes)
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:05 am

When that happened, I noted that I'd have wanted that plane to have an accident just because it woulda been a huge diplomatic problem for France, Portugal, all the other countries that blocked the airspace AND the US.

Because you know it was at the behest of the US they did this.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:48 am

Of course it was at the behest of the US, I mean the rest of the world wouldn't care where Snowden happened to be if the US didn't care.

I do find it funny that Snowden has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Price, from several different groups/people that can nominate - we have 1 political party that has done so (the most leftleaning party that sits in parliament)
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Paxen » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:08 am

Nooska wrote:I do find it funny that Snowden has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Price, from several different groups/people that can nominate - we have 1 political party that has done so (the most leftleaning party that sits in parliament)


It would be so awesome if he won it. Jagland is arrogant enough to do it, but I'm unsure if he considers these kinds of issues important enough, or relevant.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:36 am

Well, Obama won one, it would be apropos if Snowden gets one too.

PS: Make this happen for the lulz.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:01 am

Follow-up!

Cameron linked directly to the detection of Miranda: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/ ... G920130821
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:33 am

Klaudandus wrote:Well, Obama won one, it would be apropos if Snowden gets one too.

PS: Make this happen for the lulz.


This would be hilarious.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:42 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:Well, Obama won one, it would be apropos if Snowden gets one too.

PS: Make this happen for the lulz.


This would be hilarious.


Indeed.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:43 am

Question: if you had the ability to force people to believe one thing, what would it be?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:57 am

I have no idea, I am not delusional enough to believe that i know , with a 100% certainty, better than others.

Maybe make them realize that gay marriage is not gonna cause the collapse of civilization? Seems innocuous enough...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:04 am

http://www.scribd.com/doc/161910086/PPP ... ugust-2013

Q2: Who do you think was more responsible for the poor response to Hurricane Katrina: Bush or Obama?
Bush - 28%
Obama - 29%
Not sure - 44%

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby aureon » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:25 am

fuzzygeek wrote:Question: if you had the ability to force people to believe one thing, what would it be?


That global warming exists. (And that nuclear fission power is the answer to that, perhaps - i've studied the subject five years as of now, but i still don't think i can say that to 100% certainty)

Then, in the remote but existing possibility i'm wrong, we'll have drastically decreased polluting and got ourselves out of the fossil fuel dependency, which still doesn't sound too shabby, even for the extreme cost it'd have.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Flex » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:00 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:Question: if you had the ability to force people to believe one thing, what would it be?


Science isn't evil or changing your mind on an issue when you further understand the facts or when the facts change isn't a sign of weakness.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby cdan » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:03 pm

aureon wrote:
fuzzygeek wrote:Question: if you had the ability to force people to believe one thing, what would it be?


That global warming exists. (And that nuclear fission power is the answer to that, perhaps - i've studied the subject five years as of now, but i still don't think i can say that to 100% certainty)

Then, in the remote but existing possibility i'm wrong, we'll have drastically decreased polluting and got ourselves out of the fossil fuel dependency, which still doesn't sound too shabby, even for the extreme cost it'd have.


This is the big deal about the climate change issue and something that the increasingly shrill deniers just fail to understand - only one side can actually afford to be wrong.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:10 pm

You all have lofty goals for convincing people of things.

I am a God.

That's it. Nothing more. Nothing less.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Delphineas » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:17 pm

Nuclear fission may buy us time, but that's it. IIRC. we only have enough uranium/nuclear fuel for about 80 years. Least that wht high school science claimed.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Sagara » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:17 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:Question: if you had the ability to force people to believe one thing, what would it be?


Being wrong doesn't imply being a failure.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby aureon » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:38 pm

Delphineas wrote:Nuclear fission may buy us time, but that's it. IIRC. we only have enough uranium/nuclear fuel for about 80 years. Least that wht high school science claimed.

We have enough known uranium for 80 years.
Then there's unknown deposits, sea uranium, and most of all, thorium.

Then again, i really hope 80 years are enough of a bridge to get us into solar\wind\fusion\whatever.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:41 pm

aureon wrote:
Delphineas wrote:Nuclear fission may buy us time, but that's it. IIRC. we only have enough uranium/nuclear fuel for about 80 years. Least that wht high school science claimed.

We have enough known uranium for 80 years.
Then there's unknown deposits, sea uranium, and most of all, thorium.

Then again, i really hope 80 years are enough of a bridge to get us into solar\wind\fusion\whatever.

Or get killed by Apophis come 2035
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:33 am

Nuclear Fission has its own heap of problems - like spent fuel storage - radioactivity isn't good for you, and storing it for our kids or grandkids don't make it better.

Nuclear Fusion however....
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Paxen » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:10 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Follow-up!

Cameron linked directly to the detection of Miranda: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/ ... G920130821


I'm starting to get seriously worried, here. Russia, ok, they've never had a real solid grasp on "not authoritarian". Greece, their country is fucked, so weird shit happens. Worrysome, but Greece is small. Hungary, well, the hungarians never did really get a grip with their fascist past, did they. Now it's back.

And now, Britain. Full surveillance, both with cameras and all communications traffic. Reporters detained on bullshit "terrorism" charges. Charges that were so bullshit that no one believed them, not even for a second. I'm pretty sure the airport security struggled to say that with a straight face. And newspapers threatened on the direct order of the PM. V for Vendetta starts to look omniously prescient.

When did Europe take a turn towards totalitarianism? Not that the US is much better, you're only more paranoid over there, so they have to go a bit slow. Orwell should have called his book 2014...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Sagara » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:28 pm

More than totalitarism, it's the rise of demagogy that allowed politicians with a rather vague program access to more power than they can wisely use.

The problem is that demagogues are at their heart bullies, so they know of only two kind of relationships: dominator and dominated. You're weaker? You'll be crushed, because they have "the people" behind them. You're stronger and not interested in them? They'll brownnose you to get to that sweet, sweet power of yours.

The second problem is that democracy has no natural fail-safe against bullies, unless people are wise enough to recognize it past their own misgivings. Likelyhood: very low.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:45 pm

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:08 pm

Sagara wrote:More than totalitarism, it's the rise of demagogy that allowed politicians with a rather vague program access to more power than they can wisely use.

The problem is that demagogues are at their heart bullies, so they know of only two kind of relationships: dominator and dominated. You're weaker? You'll be crushed, because they have "the people" behind them. You're stronger and not interested in them? They'll brownnose you to get to that sweet, sweet power of yours.

The second problem is that democracy has no natural fail-safe against bullies, unless people are wise enough to recognize it past their own misgivings. Likelyhood: very low.

Yup. People can be herded around by the carrot of faith and the stick of fear.

When one party links itself to the dominant religion, it can then market the other side as being against that religion. People can be quite happily led to their own demise by their faith. My mother and sister repeatedly vote for candidates who oppose their best interests on the basis of their faith.

After 9/11 the general public was so afraid of terror attacks they basically said "shut up and take my freedom".

Between those two things, I don't think the US has ever been as vulnerable to demagogues as it is right now, with the possible exception of the Cold War and the rise of McCarthyism.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:21 pm

Again, this is why I am looking forward to Apophis to kill the shit out of us.
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