Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:03 am

I think is that my points are taken reductio ad absurdum -- probably my fault for the language I use since I use a lot of hyperbolic, but it seems my point is then taken further to the extreme.

If women are not in charge of the legislation, then at least the legislators should try to meet them in the middle. What I mostly see is uninformed people trying to be self-righteous.

Example:
State Sen. Dan Patrick (R): "I spoke to my colleagues and said, when Jesus criticized the Pharisees, he criticized them because their laws and their rules were more important than actually taking care of people. And in my view, stopping a debate to save thousands of lives, well, saving the thousands of lives is more important than our tradition of, well, you should never stop someone."

State Rep. Jodie Laubenberg (R): "In the emergency room they have what's called rape kits, where a woman can get cleaned out. The woman had five months to make that decision, at this point we are looking at a baby that is very far along in its development."

State Rep. Wayne Christian (R): "Of course it's a war on birth control, abortion, everything—that's what family planning is supposed to be about."

So tell me, how is it bad that I want informed people to help shape the legislation?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:41 pm

Wait... Did I get a bad link?

That link showed that 53% said do not over turn, 29% said overturn, and 18% were unsure.

Wouldn't that mean that the majority SUPPORTS Roe V Wade? Or did I lose my mind?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Flex » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:42 pm

We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:45 pm

Shoju wrote:Wait... Did I get a bad link?

That link showed that 53% said do not over turn, 29% said overturn, and 18% were unsure.

Wouldn't that mean that the majority SUPPORTS Roe V Wade? Or did I lose my mind?


Fridmarr's point is that 64% of those polled want to stop 2nd trimester abortions, and kysen was asking where those numbers came from.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:45 pm

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:12 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Fridmarr's point is that 64% of those polled want to stop 2nd trimester abortions, and kysen was asking where those numbers came from.

Yeah, that's interesting. 2nd trimester can be a lot earlier than 20 weeks, too. Wonder how it varies depending on the specific question asked. (Not disputing the result - the question on that poll was very clear and direct. But people do change their answers for the oddest reasons when you vary phrasing around - or even if you ask different questions before that one.)
Last edited by KysenMurrin on Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:12 pm

Klaudandus wrote:
Shoju wrote:Wait... Did I get a bad link?

That link showed that 53% said do not over turn, 29% said overturn, and 18% were unsure.

Wouldn't that mean that the majority SUPPORTS Roe V Wade? Or did I lose my mind?


Fridmarr's point is that 64% of those polled want to stop 2nd trimester abortions, and kysen was asking where those numbers came from.


Well, If a 2nd trimester is medically viable outside of the womb, I'm in favor. But, like with all laws, I feel that there needs to be a line in the sand where the law starts / stops, and I think that in this case, it's a reasonably easy line to create, by speaking in terms of real, scientific data.


Edit:
I should also add that I'm 100% in favor of pro-choice when there are circumstances regarding the life of the mother. Sacrificing one for the other should be a decision made exclusively by those involved, and there is no amount of line in the sand that will make me change my mind on that.

I'm probably biased, and i will admit it.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby aureon » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:40 pm

Thing is, the amount of weeks is NOT the point of the law at all.
0.3% of pregnancies are post 20 weeks, and they're nearly all for medical reasons, which would still be permitted (Since they're done when the mother's health is in grave danger)
The debate on the number of weeks is completely useless, irrelevant, and solved already.

The point is another: Texas Governor (And his party) used the excuse of that to draw up un-neededly strict restriction to abortion clinics, in order to get what they wanted (less abortions) without actually having to support their goal.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:55 pm

To be clear, I'm not advocating for this or any other legislation, just against the notion that only women should have say over this legislation, which is how we got on this tangent.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Amirya » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:41 pm

Question for you, Fridmarr (and really, anyone else who wants to jump in, I guess).

So way back when we were first trying to figure out what the hell was going on with me, I was explaining to my new doctor that I had menstrual cycles once every 9-12 months. Then they would last on superheavyragingriver flow for 2 weeks, which - every single time - kept me from work for 2-3 days minimum due to the cramping. He wanted to take a sample from my uterus, but presented me with a choice - do a pregnancy test first, to make sure I'm not pregnant, or skip the pregnancy test and accept that if I was pregnant, the procedure would terminate said pregnancy.

I wasn't pregnant by any means except immaculate conception, but in the event I might have been, should I have put the appointment on hold to discuss it with the sire first?

(Not sarcasm, btw, just truly curious how far you think this should go.)

Edit: Because I suck at forming sentences sometimes.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:17 pm

Well that's really on you. If I was in a relationship with a girl and got her pregnant, I would certainly prefer to have that communicated with me, regardless of the ultimate decision. That said, I don't think you have any sort of legal obligation to tell him.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Amirya » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:34 pm

Even if it was a maybe, maybe not, too soon to know sort of thing?

Not from a legal standpoint, but from a personal one. I'm mostly just very curious.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:31 pm

That's really difficult. The symptom of the problem is also a symptom of being pregnant, so I suspect that there's always that little bit of doubt about what it could be. I think then you could avoid one sticky situation by getting the test, since pregnancy tests aren't invasive or expensive, there's really nothing to lose.

On the other hand if you just opted to get the procedure because you felt it was highly unlikely that you were pregnant, then it's kind of a toss up in my mind, and a lot of variables come in to play about the relationship itself that could push it either way. That said, my general philosophy is that when in doubt, having all the information is better than not, so I would like to be told, but can easily see the other side of it.

Sorry that that is really mostly a copout answer.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Amirya » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:02 pm

Not really, since there are no hard and fast rules (obviously). It's as fair an answer as you can give, and an honest one, so I can respect that.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:08 am

Klaudandus wrote:The reason why i deride the as old white rich dudes is because i dont see them put any effort in getting educated,


Then deride them (rightfully) for their ignorance, instead of painting with a broad brush their entire class. Their arguments suck on merits, not because they're old, white, rich dudes. This is hurr durr class warfare, and the core reason politics nowadays suck and the government is useless.
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