Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Invisusira's playground

Moderators: Aergis, Invisusira

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:35 pm

Klaudandus wrote:leave abortion legislation to women!


Should women be left out of men's issues legislation?
Image
User avatar
fuzzygeek
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3447
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:58 pm

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:15 pm

Image
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 9349
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Snake-Aes » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:10 am

Another curious number: the combined value of the senators, deputies and their ilk (around 60k people) goes over five billions per year. More than the country's budget for research. Or police.

Each gets about 26 grand a month, plus another 15 grand spread among a series of benefits, unlimited health care of all sorts, fueling, private security. Most work roughly 3 days per week and take 2 months of vacation per year. Any given day where they work past their normal daily journey is worth an entire salary's extra.
Image
I am not allowed to seduce the abyssal's lunar mate.
User avatar
Snake-Aes
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 10095
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:15 am
Location: Thorns

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:53 pm

The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 9349
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:25 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the ... story.html

I'd have liked to see the Bolivian plane to crash, if only because it would be a political nightmare for Portugal, France AND the US.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 9349
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:42 am

The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 9349
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:26 am

Less important, but our King anounced his abdication.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:22 am

Klaudandus wrote:http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/20978789-452/sen-dick-durbin-its-time-to-say-whos-a-real-reporter.html

Ugh...


Incoming Dick jokes. Surprised the last line of his screed wasn't "AND GET OFF MY LAWN"
Image
User avatar
fuzzygeek
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3447
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:58 pm

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:20 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:leave abortion legislation to women!


Should women be left out of men's issues legislation?


Such as?
Image
Turn In, an NPC interaction automator - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... rn-in.aspx
User avatar
Sabindeus
Moderator
 
Posts: 6040
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 9:24 am

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:44 am

The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 9349
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:37 pm

Egypt is very interesting to watch. Seems like the only way to get by now there would be either a totally populist leadership, or extreme martial law. Otherwise, the protesters will keep going, knowing they have the power to push the leaders out.

The fact that the Egyptian military isn't directly controlled by the government makes the martial law option unlikely barring a genuine military coup. Whoever's in charge has to keep both the public and the military on side.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 4788
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:30 pm

Klaudandus wrote:http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/20978789-452/sen-dick-durbin-its-time-to-say-whos-a-real-reporter.html

Ugh...


So let me get this straight... The Constitution guarantees freedom of the press so that the Government can never silence contrary opinions, then some Senator wants the Government to be able to decide who qualifies as "press".

Yeah, that'll end well. Can't see any way anyone could ever exploit that one to silence dissension.

Do these people even think things through?
Un-Retired. Ish. Koatanga, Shapely, Sultry of Greenstone - Dath'Remar
Koatanga
 
Posts: 1663
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:46 pm

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:34 pm

is a knee jerk reaction, but its scary that was their idea in the first place.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 9349
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:39 pm

Klaudandus wrote:is a knee jerk reaction, but its scary that was their idea in the first place.

I am sure the court would throw it out as soon as it was challenged, but obviously it would take someone with the resources to appear before the Supreme Court. No way would it be Constitutional.
Un-Retired. Ish. Koatanga, Shapely, Sultry of Greenstone - Dath'Remar
Koatanga
 
Posts: 1663
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:46 pm

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:49 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
fuzzygeek wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:leave abortion legislation to women!


Should women be left out of men's issues legislation?


Such as?


Does it matter?
Image
User avatar
fuzzygeek
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3447
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:58 pm

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:08 am

Doesn't SCUS have the power to take up cases on it's own initiative? Or does it really have to wait for a case to make its way to SCUS?
Main Characters:
Nooska, Blood Elf BM/SV Hunter on Argent Dawn (EU)
Morosin, Bloody freezing orc death knight on Argent Dawn (EU)
Niisca, Shady forsaken "priest" on Argent Dawn (EU)

Keeper Emeritus of the BM hunters guide on Elitist Jerks and the wowhead version untill patch 5.3.
User avatar
Nooska
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:24 am

Nooska wrote:Doesn't SCUS have the power to take up cases on it's own initiative? Or does it really have to wait for a case to make its way to SCUS?
They do have the power, but typically don't use it. That said, a law doesn't have to reach the Supreme court to be thrown out. If a lower circuit court throws it out, then for that jurisdiction it's thrown out, and other circuits will inevitably follow, so what typically happens in that case is that the bill's supporters try to escalate the case up the chain, not the people trying to throw it out.

fuzzygeek wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
fuzzygeek wrote:Should women be left out of men's issues legislation?

Such as?

Does it matter?

Indeed, it's a silly idea for almost any legislation. It's even more silly in this case because it's not allowing representation for the babies who are being killed. Besides, as I've pointed out repeatedly, Klaud is a total hypocrite on this issue since he is also in favor of telling a woman what to do with her uterus post 24 weeks gestation.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 6464
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby aureon » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:38 am

Actually, Klaud's was an opinion, and he did not want to force it as law /sigh
User avatar
aureon
 
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:41 pm

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:11 am

I can see where Fridmarr is coming from as I've mentioned that I find abortion iffy on the pregnancy stages where the product is viable. So yeah, I guess I am a hypocrite on that part.

On the other hand, not sure if I am a hypocrite on the opinion that actual abortion legislation should be in the hand of women and not old white rich dudes (which is a term he has bristled at in the past -- and which I find amusing).

I think my opinion on abortion itself is irrelevant in the end, but not on who should be in charge of the legislation.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 9349
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:23 am

Yeah I asked you specifically if they should be illegal at any point and you said at viability. Yes, I "bristle" at racist and sexist remarks...go figure.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 6464
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:45 am

My stance on when it should be illegal is irrelevant because I should not be in charge of determining the laws on abortion. Women with medical and scientific degrees should.

And, unless I'm mistaken, the majority if the people trumpeting for limiting abortion, and in charge of legislation, are people that are old, white, rich and male.

Example:
Dewhurst? White, Rich, Male, Old.
Perry? White, Rich, Male, Old.

Not sure if calling a duck a duck is racist.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 9349
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:18 am

Klaudandus wrote:My stance on when it should be illegal is irrelevant because I should not be in charge of determining the laws on abortion. Women with medical and scientific degrees should.

And, unless I'm mistaken, the majority if the people trumpeting for limiting abortion, and in charge of legislation, are people that are old, white, rich and male.

Example:
Dewhurst? White, Rich, Male, Old.
Perry? White, Rich, Male, Old.

Not sure if calling a duck a duck is racist.


Actually something like 70% of the population wants abortion limited into the second trimester (this particular legislation kicks in at 20 weeks) and it goes up from there.

However, to your specific point. You aren't merely saying that Perry is an old, rich, white man, you are saying his opinion shouldn't count because he's a rich, old, white man, big difference.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 6464
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:28 am

I'm not the one that is discounting his opinion. They're the ones discounting the opinion of women. They're the ones with the uterus after all.

I'd say when it comes to these kind of issues, they should listen to the people affected by it to begin with.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 9349
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:37 am

By saying he shouldn't have a vote based on his gender, you are.

The impetus behind this legislation is some controversial research indicating that the baby can feel pain around 20 weeks. I don't think there's any reason to believe having a uterus makes someone more qualified in determining biologic attributes of a fetus. The logic around the whole uterus thing is a red herring and always has been.

You keep saying the "people affected" but keep ignoring the babies.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 6464
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:50 am

There needs to be more conclusive data on that before going all knee-jerky about it.

The problem is not just abortion itself, some are going beyond that and trying to make miscarriages and stillbirths a criminal offense.

http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/ ... ty-georgia
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/0 ... to-police/
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... nslaughter

Obligatory motherjones/thinkprogress grain-of-salt aside, I still see men being the ones pushing for this kind of stuff on women.

And threading back into abortion. Again, it should be something in the hands of women to push for anything relating to abortion and its legislation.

As it is, it would be like women pushing for legislation for what we can or cannot do with our testes.

Not sure how I ignore the baby though as you called me hypocrite for saying I personally feel that abortion should be restricted once the product is viable.


All things aside, I want to make things clear -- I got no animosity towards you. I love debating and I can treat people equally nice regardless even if we strongly disagree on certain philosophical points.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 9349
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

PreviousNext

Return to Arkham Asylum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSNbot Media and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: MSNbot Media and 1 guest