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Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:25 am

And in today's "Hi, I'm a republican, and say stupid shit and think I'm smart" category, we have a gem from

Re-Election campaign for Texas Rep Steve Stockman.

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What a FREAKING IDIOT.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:37 am

Ouch. Particularly bad on the back of news stories circulating recently of toddlers accidentally killing their parents with guns.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:27 pm

You think he's stating serious policy and not trying to be funny?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Paxen » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:12 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:You think he's stating serious policy and not trying to be funny?


Still in a bit of bad taste with the recent incident where that 4-year old killed his playmate.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:36 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Not sure what Fridmarr would think of this
http://news.yahoo.com/5-hard-changes-ad ... 00206.html
To some degree I like all of it.

I think number one is a little odd though. I'm for phasing out all tax deductions, that I own a house and have children is a stupid reason for me to pay less taxes than someone else who makes as much as I do. To that point though, simply isolating state/local tax reductions is odd, and using the stupid "over 10 years" claim makes me want to kick the dog. He's also not entirely correct, like in WA where we do not have an income tax to deduct, for some years (it changes as tax policy changes) we can deduct sales tax in its place. His broader point is that we need to increase taxes overall (aka more revenue) and I'd agree with that to an extent.

I'm all for reducing military spending, significantly.
I'm all for less punishment of "victimless crimes".
I'm all for reducing the effect of special interests. The trick here is how to accomplish that. He seems to be advocating that it can be accomplished by reducing subsidies, which I'm in favor of, but I think that's a pretty small step. You reduce it drastically by reducing the power that such a small group of people has to influence corporations on a global scale, which can be accomplished by transitioning that power to the state/local levels where it always should have been.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:36 am

A "scary" thing about political standpoints.

Fridmarr, if you were to move over here, to Denmark, you could probably find some poeple agree ing with you in the conservative party, but to a large degree, what you propose and want over the course of what I've read of you in thsi thread, you would be more at home on the left, with us from the socialists people's party.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:16 am

Paxen wrote:Still in a bit of bad taste with the recent incident where that 4-year old killed his playmate.


Unless this silly bumpersticker came out in direct response to that news story, this criticism is nonsensical.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:29 pm

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:52 am

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:31 am

I don't really disagree with the overall sentiment of the article, but that big quote near the top seems fishy. Saying that fundamentalist views aren't mainstream by comparing them to polls of... Catholics?

The article itself I can't see really doing much more than preaching to the choir - a number of the things talked about (like belief in the geocentric model of the universe) most readers would find hard to believe were held as true by an influential number of people.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:53 am

Klaudandus wrote:http://churchandstate.org.uk/2013/02/christian-fundamentalists-are-driving-our-country-into-the-dark-ages/
thoughts?


DISCLAIMER
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I am commenting, because Klaud asked for thoughts. I'm not interested in some long and drawn out argument where you tell me I'm wrong, and try to show me why. I've come to the conclusion that my opinion, is based on my life experiences, growing up in the very thing that this article is talking about. I'm biased. I will willingly, and openly admit my bias about it as someone who grew up in some of the scariest circles of the fundamentalist Christian Movement, during some of it's darkest times.

When I speak about Christianity, and my distaste, I'm not saying that I hate you. I'm not saying that I hate your religion. Unless, you are a fundamentalist. Then, Yes. I hate your religion. But I don't hate you.

I'm willing to have civil conversation about my opinions, but so help me, if this turns into the type of shit that it has in the past, I'm done.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
END OF DISCLAIMER

It echos my sentiments of the fundamentalist Christian movement, both in, and out of the political arena.

There is a large push in fundamental churches to create derision between them, and everyone else. Even other branches of Christianity that differ from their own. It's one of the biggest reasons I hold the belief that Catholicism, and Fundamental Christianity are in fact two different religions, in a similar manner that there is a difference of religion between Jewish, Muslim, and Catholicism/Christianity. We've been over the topic before, and I'm not really interested in hashing it out again. But Understand that from a fundamentalist point of view, you are wrong. They are right. You're going to hell. They are not. I'm willing to concede that at a technical level, they are "the same", but this isn't something you can be technical about. To me, there is a large enough divide in the doctrines, and ideologies of the evangelical/pentacostal - fundamentalist movement, that it is it's very own religion.

Fundamentalists truly believe that Secular is bad. Wrong. Immoral. The direct influence of Satan on Earth. They have set upon themselves an impossible standard to live by, and they build upon this ideology, by segregation of other religious points of view.

An Anecdote
As a child, there was a wildly popular christian singer. Amy Grant. When I was around 10, she decided to "Go Secular". The Church held a party, in which they took all of their Amy Grant items; Shirts, Tapes, Records, Posters, and had a bonfire. She was essentially banned and blacklisted.
End Anecdote

After living through it, and looking back at it, I just don't understand how they can be so blindly fanatical to the point that their doctrine ends up being contradictory. As I said in a PM with someone, they have set upon themselves the desire to live closely to God, and it isn't enough to be saved. There is no "Well, I'm saved, and I'm going to Heaven." If you stray, you will go to Hell. How do you stray? Sin. But you sin every day. If I Fight with my wife, and Sin, by disrespecting her, leave the house, get in a car, and die in an accident, by their own standard, I've died a sinner, and the only place for me, is Hell.

You sin with your mind, and not just your actions. And it will send you to hell. How do you stay saved? No one has ever answered that question to me. I was "saved" and "Baptized" not only by water, but in the Holy Spirit (Which IMO is a sort of group think induced something) by the time i was 14. Am I saved forever? Am I a sinner because of what has happened in my life since? Am I a sinner, because I believe that if God is real, I'm probably pretty unhappy with him for what he allows done in his name without smacking some sense into people?

And what I've described, is what I see this playing out in politics. I'm not quite sure why the fundamentalist movement has risen to the top in the political atmosphere. I somewhat believe that because the message is so divisive, that it ends up with the most airplay.

And here is where I say something some may disagree with.

But, the reality (at least to me) is that the type of Christianity I see play out in our political arena feels closer to WBC doctrine than the doctrine of non fundamentalist, and even non evangelical Christianity, Especially in the younger demographics. They may not cheer at the chaos and devastation and call it the "wrath of God", but on moral issues, they are close.

And it sickens me to see it. As I grew older, and realized that I truly felt at odds with the faith of those around me, I came to a lot of the same conclusions as this article does. The biggest being the underlying sentiment that disagreement isn't a disagreement with a person or even with doctrine. It's a direct attack on God. The more I see that happens with the fundamentalist movement, The more that I'm wary of it. I see parallels in their beliefs, and the dreaded "Sharia Law" of Fundamentalist Islam that they claim to so vehemently despise. Their worldview and political ideology has shifted. They don't want a conservative voice. They want a theocracy. Any anyone who is against them, is the enemy.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:02 pm

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features ... 3357.story

holy shit, this is bad, as in... disgustingly bad.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:31 pm

Merit pay is well and good, but it is pretty much impossible for some idiot legislator to draw up a system that isn't completely ass backwards when it comes to how one goes about measuring performance, or implementing a metric that doesn't lead to system gaming and horrible results. More legislation is almost never the answer.

Speaking of which: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/ ... r_all.html
Legalize polygamy. Discuss.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:53 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:Merit pay is well and good, but it is pretty much impossible for some idiot legislator to draw up a system that isn't completely ass backwards when it comes to how one goes about measuring performance, or implementing a metric that doesn't lead to system gaming and horrible results. More legislation is almost never the answer.

Speaking of which: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/ ... r_all.html
Legalize polygamy. Discuss.


Well, the problem with the system in florida is, as the article states:
Kim Cook, one of the plaintiffs, teaches at W.W. Irby Elementary in Alachua, which has students in pre-K-to-second grade. Cook was her school's "Teacher of the Year" last year, the lawsuit noted.

The test-score portion of her evaluation was based on the work of fourth- and fifth-grade students at nearby Alachua Elementary. When they showed less than expected growth, her initial evaluation pegged her as "unsatisfactory."

Bethann Brooks, another plaintiff, is a health-science teacher at Central High School in Brooksville who works mostly with older students who want to be nursing assistants. Her evaluation was based partly on ninth- and 10th-graders' reading test scores. " I don't teach most of those students," she said a telephone call with reporters. "And those I do teach are enrolled in my health–science-related classes."


Your evaluation as a teacher depends on kids from other schools, that are on other grades, and on subjects not related to yours. WTF.

As for polygamy. I don't care really. After my brush with marriage, in which it failed right before getting married, thank the FSM... I don't think I'd want a wife, let alone two.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Passionario » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:04 am

fuzzygeek wrote:Legalize polygamy. Discuss.


From a purely legal viewpoint, legalizing polygamy, polyandry or any other kind of marriage with more than two partners has one major problem that legalizing gay marriage doesn't have: namely, divorce. With gay marriage, deciding who gets to keep which property and who gets the custody of the children is just as simple (if painful) as with straight marriage. With polygamy, you'd need to rewrite the entire procedure from scratch, and it would be far more complicated.
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