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Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:10 pm

This thread has an amazing amount of bullshit that people haven't been called out on. So I'm not sure how "deserving" that particular comment is in light of the rest.

I don't have a problem with someone challenging someone else's assertions and that comment has plenty of room for criticism, but that was just a poor attempt.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:00 pm

For the record, I am not trying to say "my country is better". I'm merely trying to dispel the very patriotic idea that America somehow has a monopoly on freedom. When I see a statement like "there are no peoples on the face of the earth born free like we in the US", I call bullshit.

There are plenty of other free countries in the world, and in the wake of the 9/11 legislation that basically traded freedoms for security, I think it's arguable that America is even the most free country out there anymore.

My daughter is a great example of a free person born here. She has a NZ passport and a US passport and qualifies for a UK passport. She'll be able to work and live in any Western country she likes. To be born to a high standard of living, able to freely travel the world, settle where you like, do what you want - doesn't get much more free than that.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:06 pm

I dunno, i thought holyblaze was being facetious...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Holyblaze » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:36 pm

HAHA DOH! DANG IT ALL!!!!

Well my lack and inability to express my thoughts in writing accuratly strikes again.

Theck is right in that Alaska is HUGE but not many live here. No one is talking about taking up arms against out government, but our right to bear arms comes from our founders experiance against tyrants and goverments that would seek to rule over us.

For the record...I put that link in my post cause I suck and they say it as it should be said. pfft!
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Holyblaze » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:36 pm

lol Klaudandus...I see what you did there. haha BAM! 8)
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:52 pm

Klaudandus wrote:I dunno, i thought holyblaze was being facetious...

I pretty much need big old "Sarcasm incoming!" signs these days. After the election and the various bullshit that people actually believed, I don't put it past anyone to hold any position, no matter how comical it seems.

I need that Fry face saying "Don't know if 'Team America: World Police' reference... Or actual belief"
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:46 pm

Holyblaze wrote:lol Klaudandus...I see what you did there. haha BAM! 8)


Wait, you were being serious?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:01 pm

Klaudandus wrote:
Holyblaze wrote:lol Klaudandus...I see what you did there. haha BAM! 8)


Wait, you were being serious?

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby bldavis » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:08 pm

after this last election, i wouldnt be surprised by what anyone believes...
might think they are fucking lunatics *cough*westboro church*cough* but it would take a lot to surprise me that there are idiots people out there that believe some of these things

for example, my mother is among those conservatives that still question Obama's birth certificate, and my grandmother is VERY opposed to even LGBT civil unions, legalized pot, and the reintroduction of wolves back into Oregon (though that one i kinda agree on her with being we now have a confirmed..as in caught in the act...livestock wolf kill)
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:12 pm

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/33 ... na-johnson

Nazism may have been an ideology to which the United States was — and to which the president is — implacably opposed, but it is hardly “senseless.” By the early 1930s, the Nazi party had hundreds of thousands of devoted members and repeatedly attracted a third of the votes in German elections; its political leaders campaigned on a platform comprising 25 non-senseless points, including the “unification of all Germans,” a demand for “land and territory for the sustenance of our people,” and an assertion that “no Jew can be a member of the race.” Suffice it to say, many sensible Germans were persuaded.


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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:24 pm

Klaudandus wrote:http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/339003/president-obama-commemorates-senseless-holocaust-eliana-johnson

Nazism may have been an ideology to which the United States was — and to which the president is — implacably opposed, but it is hardly “senseless.” By the early 1930s, the Nazi party had hundreds of thousands of devoted members and repeatedly attracted a third of the votes in German elections; its political leaders campaigned on a platform comprising 25 non-senseless points, including the “unification of all Germans,” a demand for “land and territory for the sustenance of our people,” and an assertion that “no Jew can be a member of the race.” Suffice it to say, many sensible Germans were persuaded.


Yikes. I can't even *see* that far right.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:30 pm

Koatanga wrote:Yikes. I can't even *see* that far right.


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Say what you want about the tenets of national socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:23 am

Also National socialism, as a base is vilified to a much higher degree than it deserves - because of a link that cannot be overlooked today, though has nothing to do with teh ideology itself (Namely Hitler's megalomania and warmongering).

The ideology has some very sensible ideas, and some (very) unrealistic ideas. Neo national socialism is based almost entirely on the link to Hitler and the megalomaniacal and warmongering ideas, so that can be vilified just fine without being undeserving.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:02 am

Nooska wrote:Also National socialism, as a base is vilified to a much higher degree than it deserves - because of a link that cannot be overlooked today, though has nothing to do with teh ideology itself (Namely Hitler's megalomania and warmongering).

The ideology has some very sensible ideas, and some (very) unrealistic ideas. Neo national socialism is based almost entirely on the link to Hitler and the megalomaniacal and warmongering ideas, so that can be vilified just fine without being undeserving.
I "think" (in quotes because it's kind of hard to say, that piece is very poorly written and I'm not sure I'm right about the intent) that was the point that the author was getting too. That Nazism wasn't "senseless" it was a well thought out theory of government that persuaded many people because of its ideals, some of which are in fact noble. That that violent result of it is a risk with any such concentration of power, particularly when the good of the many is put above individual's rights and liberties.

It came off as if the author was trying to support Nazism, which was likely the exact opposite of her intent, since that's a far left approach to governing. The article's premise was kind of stupid though, Obama wasn't using "senseless" in the literal manner, it's a common cliche.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Dantriges » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:14 am

I can understand unification of all germans and land ... for the sustenance of our people considering the treaty of Versailles who snipped of some majority german lands (yeah polish country, too), throwing votes in the trash, in some areas where the population actually wanted to remain in Germany but the victors wanted that piece of land, etc. Versailles was a written invitation for round 2. the french should have known better. They were so pissed off that Germany took Alsace-Lorraine after the war of 1870. Big mistake on Germany´s side. And AFAIK they promised before the surrender to honor Wilson´s plan for peace, instead of grab your own personal chunk of Germany, now.

Also Prussia was divided in two parts, probably annoyed quite a few people but I can understand Poland wasn´t keen on returning their sea access.

So the whole thing could have been avoided probably if they just let the parts which were majority polish and other minority areas secede if they want and set the reparation payments at a lower sum.

The whole unification of all Germans was a big thing in the 19th century when Germany was still divided in small nation states, till 1870.

So yeah I can see how you can build a reasonable platform as a political party in Post WW1 Germany out of the first two claims. Perhaps it could have worked in some areas without coming to blows and starting another war. Not that I defend the NSDASP. They had a few things that appealed to the german public, otherwise they wouldn´t have been elected. "We have a megalomaniac leader who does pretty speeches, hate jews and everone else who isn´t german and like big shows with torches and flags" won´t get you far. Even if you are keen on streetfights and intimidating the other people to submit.

Fine let´s put these two under reasonable points in light of the treaty of Versailles and the whole situation. France wasn´t happy that Germany took of with Alsace-Lorraine, too. but she listeded the "assertion that no Jew can be member of the race" under the non-senseless points? Wow, at least she is honest that she is a racist nutjob glorifying nazism. :roll:
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