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Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:16 am

Oi...

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/01/29/h ... -of-legos/

Might as well ban the use of the capital L and capital J ...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Jabari » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:21 am

Amirya wrote:As an example, I can't fathom a single freakin' reason why civilians should have access to assault weapons, but somehow, that is their "right to defend their home" against the theoretical home invader.


General question (not directed at you Amirya - this post was just a convenient trigger):

What is the purpose of the Second Amendment?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:30 am

Jabari wrote:
Amirya wrote:As an example, I can't fathom a single freakin' reason why civilians should have access to assault weapons, but somehow, that is their "right to defend their home" against the theoretical home invader.


General question (not directed at you Amirya - this post was just a convenient trigger):

What is the purpose of the Second Amendment?

Depends on whom you ask, which kind of hinges in a comma.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby bldavis » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:51 am

the way it was taught to me is to help provide for a militia at a time when we didnt have a large standing army.
the militia today is the national guard - citizen soldiers that are trained to be military personnel when needed and called up to be active

not going into my personal beliefs on the subject currently, but that is what i was taught in history class and through having several family members and friends be both active duty and reserve/national guard
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Holyblaze » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:25 pm

I do not like to mix my gaming world with real life, but this has become very interesting to me at this point.

Here is a link to a letter signed by 1,100 Green Berets in defense of the 2nd Amendment

http://sofrep.com/16644/1000-green-bere ... amendment/


Below is a small exerpt from it:

"...First, we need to set the record straight on a few things. The current debate is over so-called “assault weapons” and high capacity magazines. The terms “assault weapon” and “assault rifle” are often confused. According to Bruce H. Kobayashi and Joseph E. Olson, writing in the Stanford Law and Policy Review, “Prior to 1989, the term ‘assault weapon’ did not exist in the lexicon of firearms. It is a political term [underline added for emphasis], developed by anti-gun publicists to expand the category of assault rifles...”
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Holyblaze » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:46 pm

OH YEAH! For the record...I am an Alaskan. Me and all my friends grew up with guns. My daughter and son grew up with them. They have been trained to use them as I was and my fater before me and so it has ever been. Alaska is a very free kinda place. People can still do almost as they please.

There are no peoples on the face of this earth born free like we in the US. We, I say we as it is our taxes that are used, the peoples of the United States, feed a huge portion of the world. We fight back oppresed people all over the world and our sons and our daughters fight and die on soil that is not there own.

It is simple to me and the way I think. A people cannot stay free unless they fight to keep it that way. Fighting here in America is in the political world anymore, but that is only on the account that we born free peoples have the RIGHT to keep and bear arms. If the last 4 years in our political system is any idication, it is more important than ever and stand up for all peoples rights.

haha bah!

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:28 pm

No offense, but I can board an airplane in Auckland and get off in Napier without ever passing through a metal detector, much less have to remove my shoes and have my luggage gone through. Where you have the TSA and invasive X-ray checks, we have beagles. They do a better job, cost less, and are friendlier than TSA agents.

Our average police officers don't carry guns, although there is generally a shotgun in the cruiser should they need it.

Our crime rate is low. We're ranked the top country in the world to visit and in which to conduct business.

We're pretty damn free down here.

But we do not have a right to bear arms. It is a privilege granted to people who qualify for a firearms license and pass a firearms test. Even then, people can't own handguns unless they belong to a pistol club and have additional qualifications to their license. Further qualifications are required to own military-style semi-automatic weapons.

This impacts the daily life of New Zealanders not at all. Honestly, we don't need to be armed to feel safe.

And quite frankly, the very idea that the Chinese are afraid to invade the US because the citizenry has the right to bear arms is ludicrous. Your freedom is protected by your massive high-tech military, the budget for which is crippling your economy. Any invading force wouldn't give a crap if you had guns or not. Unless you've got anti-aircraft, RPGs, tanks, and such, you're not even a speed bump.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Levantine » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:58 am

Ugh. Alaskans. You have a very strange idea of freedom when it's the red that is seeking to quash the rights of so many groups of people that don't fit neatly into your perceived notion of what is 'right'. Heaven forbid someone else threaten your right to carry what amounts to BB-guns in a full scale war and put the safety of individuals over the illusion of safety. Shouldn't what's good for one be good for the other? Or is the 'elite' group of people the only one you actually care about?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:42 am

To be fair, Alaska is probably a lot like central Pennsylvania. Lots of hunters who use their rifles for sport. I doubt very many of them seriously believe they would use them to defend against the government. There are a decent number of them that talk big about such things, but most aren't actually silly enough to believe it.

You also have a very different situation than in a big city. The population is much more spread out in much of PA. If you live out in the boonies, you don't have regular or expedient police coverage. If someone's trying to break into your house, a firearm is basically your best defense, because it will take 20-30 minutes for police to show up at minimum.

However, people who grow up in that culture are also taught to respect guns more than your average city-dweller, in my experience. My fiancee (and everyone in her family) took gun safety classes as a child, they lock their firearms up properly, and so forth.

And of course, they primarily own hunting rifles, and the occasional pistol. That said, the discussion earlier in this thread of what exactly constitutes "semi-automatic" still seems relevant. I'm not knowledgeable enough about firearms to know where these weapons would fall in the categorization. I grew up in a city near Philadelphia, so I didn't grow up in the hunting culture, have never gone hunting or fired a weapon more dangerous than a BB gun, and so on. We didn't even get the first day of buck season off for school, unlike my fiancee's school.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:44 am

I think he was being facetious...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:51 am

And to set the record straight on "it is [US] taxes that are used, the peoples of the United States, feed a huge portion of the world.", the US still rank dead bottom in foreign aid in percent of GNP compared to he other spending countries.

So its the rest of the worlds foreign aid budget that feed a huge portion of the world.
(though no greater exporter of corn syrup exists.. though that just leads to obesity -better than starvation I guess)


(The above contains snark at the too prevalent US perception of being the world leader in everything despite evidence to teh contrary)
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Sagara » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:52 am

That's also a very interesting point: one corner of the U.S. is very different from other. And, by extension, different from Europe, Australia or what have you (hell, even in Europe differences are drastic).

I'm typically very anti-gun, but I'm wondering if a huge part of the gun problematic may instead lie in:

a) Lack of proper respect to a tool designed to deal death.
b) Lack of proper control of people using tools designed to deal death.

Without going too far, maybe the first and highest realistic priority is working on the psychic health of our people. Sane people can handle guns fine.

(j/k: which would explain why so many gun accidents happen in the U.S., since you guys are all pants-on-head insane anyway.)
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:04 am

Nooska wrote:And to set the record straight on "it is [US] taxes that are used, the peoples of the United States, feed a huge portion of the world.", the US still rank dead bottom in foreign aid in percent of GNP compared to he other spending countries.

So its the rest of the worlds foreign aid budget that feed a huge portion of the world.
(though no greater exporter of corn syrup exists.. though that just leads to obesity -better than starvation I guess)


(The above contains snark at the too prevalent US perception of being the world leader in everything despite evidence to teh contrary)

Eh, that's hardly setting the record straight, and it's borderline disingenuos.  Your first comment is a percentage based comment, your second is an absolute value based comment,   You can't mix those.  A loaf of bread doesn't feed more people just because it's a higher percentage of the buyer's GDP.  So yes, the US is fairly low in a foreign aid as a percentage of GDP, but are tops (I think) in absolute money given.  So, Holyblaze's comment is probably true, that we feed more people than any other country (though I have no clue how that aid is parsed in terms of food/medicine etc).
 
I'm reluctant to moderate this thread, despite its gross need for it, as I've been participating as well.  However, precedent has long been set for these sorts of "my country is better than yours" discussions.  That particular thread of discussion needs to stop now.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby bldavis » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:28 am

as theck (and i have) said, there is a HUGE difference between those that grew up in the more rural areas and with guns, treating them as tools and not toys or something that makes us macho, and those that grew up in cities and more urban areas that didnt have that taught to them.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Paxen » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:34 am

Fridmarr wrote:So, Holyblaze's comment is probably true, that we feed more people than any other country (though I have no clue how that aid is parsed in terms of food/medicine etc).


It's also a meaningless statement, and he deserves to be called on it.

But I do agree that "my country is better than yours, nyah nyah" isn't very fruitful.
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