Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby bldavis » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:54 am

i was being sarcastic as well
i know it would be impossible to remove them even if a ban was passed so there is no point in worrying about it atm
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:01 pm

that was more pointed at Paxen than you BL.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Paxen » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:57 pm

Shoju wrote:that was more pointed at Paxen than you BL.


What makes you think that I consider it a practical solution!

Like you said, any gun control has to be phased in gradually in a gun-mad country like the US. If you want to make it effective, banning semiautomatic handguns has to happen. I really, really doubt the US will be able to do that in the foreseeable (or unforeseeable) future. But it has to be the logical endpoint of any measure you take.

(Revolvers, while technically not semiautomatic pistols, would also have to be encompassed by a similar ban. You can get pretty hefty rates of fire with a speed loader and practice.)
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:57 pm

Paxen wrote:
Shoju wrote:that was more pointed at Paxen than you BL.


What makes you think that I consider it a practical solution!

Like you said, any gun control has to be phased in gradually in a gun-mad country like the US. If you want to make it effective, banning semiautomatic handguns has to happen. I really, really doubt the US will be able to do that in the foreseeable (or unforeseeable) future. But it has to be the logical endpoint of any measure you take.

(Revolvers, while technically not semiautomatic pistols, would also have to be encompassed by a similar ban. You can get pretty hefty rates of fire with a speed loader and practice.)

It's not the sportsmen (aka those who would practice to improve rates of fire and accuracy) who are shooting people.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:27 pm

I don't know about that. In many of these cases where rate of fire has mattered, the shooters have had practice and preparation.

That aside, there is no training required to increase your rate of fire with a revolver. Prior to going empty the first time, it's semi automatic in the way that matters: one trigger pull, one shot. A speed loader is just the revolver equivalent of a clip, and is just as easy to use.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:30 pm

Slight change of topic...I find this sort of thing very disconcerting...
http://news.yahoo.com/texas-school-forc ... 26100.html

TLDR; School is requiring kids to where RFIDish cards so their location can be accounted for. They claim to be doing this because kids are loitering outside their classrooms when the morning bell rings, affecting their ability to take proper attendance, and therefore their ability to get federal dollars.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:38 pm

And with practice, you can be a really fast shooter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTHc4H_i8DY

Not saying they're gonna be as fast or as accurate as this guy, but in a closed room, with 20+ people in, odds are, you're gonna hit more than one target.

Of course, there's this guy that even at close range seems to have spidersenses or something
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tkMYoOLAhk
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:46 pm

Fridmarr wrote:Slight change of topic...I find this sort of thing very disconcerting...
http://news.yahoo.com/texas-school-forc ... 26100.html

TLDR; School is requiring kids to where RFIDish cards so their location can be accounted for. They claim to be doing this because kids are loitering outside their classrooms when the morning bell rings, affecting their ability to take proper attendance, and therefore their ability to get federal dollars.


*clicks article* Ah! Northside!

Their claims are correct. Funding is based on attendance. Texas is always crying about reducing their budget, of course, they prefer to cut education funding (remember I bitched about how an Osprey is worth more than the operating costs of my district for 2-3 years) than to not extend the tax cuts to the oil companies *cough*joe barton et al*cough*
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:59 pm

I'm not doubting their reasoning. I know how the funding works, part of our backwards system of having a federal department of education, a gigantic waste of resources that unsurprisingly has created bad results and ridiculous inefficiencies. I'm just amazed that a school can't figure out how to take proper attendance without resorting to RFID tagging their students. As a government school, the logic doesn't pass a basic sniff test for something so invasive.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:42 pm

Fridmarr wrote:I'm not doubting their reasoning. I know how the funding works, part of our backwards system of having a federal department of education, a gigantic waste of resources that unsurprisingly has created bad results and ridiculous inefficiencies. I'm just amazed that a school can't figure out how to take proper attendance without resorting to RFID tagging their students. As a government school, the logic doesn't pass a basic sniff test for something so invasive.


It can't be helped.

The state does not give the district the same money for a kid that came in tardy than for one that was in the classroom when attendance was taken.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:34 pm

Can't be helped? These are kids that are literally in the freaking building, but won't go to where they are supposed to...

I'm sorry, but if a school can't solve that problem that's absurd.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:46 pm

The kid might be in the building, but if the kid is not present in the classroom by the time the teacher is taking attendance, then for all intents and purposes, that kid is just not present as per the TEA regulation.

Can't be helped because those are the regulations imposed by TEA to all the districts when it comes to attendance.

Every kid has to be accounted for, ever day, and the state gives a certain amount of money based on that day's attendance. The state gives the most money that are present since the first class, and obviously less money for the kids that were there but werent there for the whole day...

That's why they want RFID on the students, to force them to go into the classrooms on time, so they can be accounted on time, so TEA can give them the most money for the kids.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:01 pm

Klaud I understand the accounting...

Again, if the students are in the school, but you can't get them to go to their class on time, you are failing miserably at solving a very fundamental problem that requires nothing close to RFID tagging kids.

How on earth would RFID even help with that? I mean the kids are in the hallways and stairwells, it's not like they don't know where they are. I'm guessing they'll just use RFID as a way to say that the kids are present.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby bldavis » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:05 pm

how are RFID tags going to do anything different than currently?
you still need personnel to herd the kids into the room

all a tag will do is show you where they are, which will just cut down time looking for them, and add a new level for skippers to have fun getting around

its not like the tags will mind control the kids and when passing is over make them walk into the rooms
and if it is not in a school with passing time between classes...why are they allowed out in the hall without supervision anyway?

note: before this was written before frid had posted thier comment
if they use the tags as Frid suggested, just use them on doors and forget about taking attendence, and shut the doors at the end of passing times. you arent in class, you dont get the lecture or turn in homework, so you dont get credit for them, and you are SoL and have to figure out how to get to class on time, or retake it

i mean it worked like that for me in school, and yes i had to retake some classes
but i guess that kind of real world harshness would be too tough for kids these days right? :roll:
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby bldavis » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:05 pm

how are RFID tags going to do anything different than currently?
you still need personnel to herd the kids into the room

all a tag will do is show you where they are, which will just cut down time looking for them, and add a new level for skippers to have fun getting around

its not like the tags will mind control the kids and when passing is over make them walk into the rooms
and if it is not in a school with passing time between classes...why are they allowed out in the hall without supervision anyway?

note: above this was written before frid had posted thier comment
if they use the tags as Frid suggested, just use them on doors and forget about taking attendence, and shut the doors at the end of passing times. you arent in class, you dont get the lecture or turn in homework, so you dont get credit for them, and you are SoL and have to figure out how to get to class on time, or retake it

i mean it worked like that for me in school, and yes i had to retake some classes
but i guess that kind of real world harshness would be too tough for kids these days right? :roll:
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Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:43 pm

My university took attendance that way. It caused a HUGE stir among the student body, split about evenly between "hey, you tell us we're adults, but you want to punish us for not attending above and beyond an F that we'd normally get for skipping a bunch of classes" and "OMG POLICE STATE WTF".

Pretty much what you'd expect from a university-level student body.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby bldavis » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:55 pm

ive had classes where you missed more than 3 classes, and that includes being more than 5 min late, you dropped a grade and i have had classes where he didnt give a rats ass if you showed, but if you didnt you had to figure out how to do the project on your own or get a class mate to help (one of my ...ok most of my drafting classes were like that)
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:46 pm

Fivelives wrote:My university took attendance that way. It caused a HUGE stir among the student body, split about evenly between "hey, you tell us we're adults, but you want to punish us for not attending above and beyond an F that we'd normally get for skipping a bunch of classes" and "OMG POLICE STATE WTF".

Pretty much what you'd expect from a university-level student body.
lol, how exactly would they punish you? Did they really have an attendance problem like that? I mean you're the one that is paying for the school, that should be motivation enough for you to show up. In any event, at least at the university level you have a choice.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Dantriges » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:06 am

Fridmarr wrote:I'm not doubting their reasoning. I know how the funding works, part of our backwards system of having a federal department of education, a gigantic waste of resources that unsurprisingly has created bad results and ridiculous inefficiencies. I'm just amazed that a school can't figure out how to take proper attendance without resorting to RFID tagging their students. As a government school, the logic doesn't pass a basic sniff test for something so invasive.


And well school rducation is more or less in the hands of the provinces over here and it´s a gigantic waste of resources, too and they can´t agree on anything if they are all affected. That´s just bureauracy, no matter if it´s on a state or nation wide level. We are long past the time where village level administration is sufficient which is probably more efficient... in rural towns. There are enough countries in the world as big as your average US state that are perfectly capable of wasting big bucks in big bureaucracy. So if you transfer power over to the states, your tax dollars will go to waste within the then expanded state administration. Perhaps you can save quite a few bucks if you disband the Union completely and let every state work for himself but somehow I don´t think that there are so many people in favor of that.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Torquemada » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:05 am

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Brekkie » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:17 am

Dantriges wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:I'm not doubting their reasoning. I know how the funding works, part of our backwards system of having a federal department of education, a gigantic waste of resources that unsurprisingly has created bad results and ridiculous inefficiencies. I'm just amazed that a school can't figure out how to take proper attendance without resorting to RFID tagging their students. As a government school, the logic doesn't pass a basic sniff test for something so invasive.


And well school rducation is more or less in the hands of the provinces over here and it´s a gigantic waste of resources, too and they can´t agree on anything if they are all affected. That´s just bureauracy, no matter if it´s on a state or nation wide level. We are long past the time where village level administration is sufficient which is probably more efficient... in rural towns. There are enough countries in the world as big as your average US state that are perfectly capable of wasting big bucks in big bureaucracy. So if you transfer power over to the states, your tax dollars will go to waste within the then expanded state administration. Perhaps you can save quite a few bucks if you disband the Union completely and let every state work for himself but somehow I don´t think that there are so many people in favor of that.


And this is exactly why I have trouble understanding the "states rights" argument.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:37 am

I guess I don't see the big deal with RFID based attendance. They are students. In a school. Is it the expense that people have a problem with? Is it the RFID? There are companies that have similar monitoring systems. Good for them. You're there to go to school. You're there to do a job. The RFID proves if you were there or not, and can keep people there, and accounted for. But then, I guess I'm not that upset by it.




Why? Because he took Al-Jazeera's money? Because they are funded by a country whose funding is based on Oil? I guess I don't understand. Just because you are an environmentalist, you can't even deal with people who do other things? Just because Quatar has a big carbon footprint, he shouldn't make a business decision to sell something to them?

I don't care much for Al "I invented the internet" Gore, but I hardly see him selling his stake in a TV Company as hypocritical.

Maybe if he owned a for profit "greenpeace" type company and sold out to Oil Barons, that'd be hypocritical. But a business deal for a TV station? Just doesn't get me all up in arms.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:16 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/1 ... 49431.html

Holy Shit Bricks Batman. Texas just lost all of their Medicaid Funding for women, because of their new "Anti Planned Parenthood" Discrimination Laws.

I uh... Well, I see some lawsuits coming in the great state of texas, and I think I see a shift in population coming if goes too far.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:16 am

That article was posted last march
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:21 am

Klaudandus wrote:That article was posted last march


Hmm... I think I clicked the wrong thing. Let me see if I can find the article they were linking to today. There was supposedly some new development.

EDIT: Yeah, I fail at keeping up with my Twitter feed. I found a couple of links,

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/texas-plan ... d=18173045

http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/17041/

But there was another link about Texas and funding, and Planned Parenthood today. I can't seem to find the link, but there was some sort of new development. Go me.
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