Remove Advertisements

Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Invisusira's playground

Moderators: Aergis, Invisusira

Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:06 pm

Fridmarr wrote:The problem there is that his crowning achievement isn't very popular, and sadly it seems like his Bain capital attacks are working. I say sadly, not because I want Romney to win, but because the attacks are stupid nonsense.

I don't see any way in which Obama loses or that it's even close.


Just for clarification, what are you referring to when you say "his crowning achievement"?

Because clearly it's none of the possible candidates I can think of, since none of them are unpopular.
Or are we still talking about the Health Care law?
Theckhd wrote:big numbers are the in-game way of expressing that Brekkie's penis is huge.
Brekkie
 
Posts: 924
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:47 pm

Koatanga wrote:It's not perfect by any means. I have a friend with lung cancer in the US who probably would have died had she relied on the NZ health care system because of her late diagnosis and the waiting-list thing. That would have sucked.

But no system is perfect, and waiting around for a perfect one won't fix any problems.


I thought the countries with socialized healthcare skipped people up the waiting lists for emergent and urgent conditions? Sort of like the transplant list in the US - the closer you are to your expiration date, the higher up they bump you on the list. So a patient with lung cancer here waiting on a transplant would be next in line if they were down in the 2-4 weeks to live range, whereas another patient with lung cancer would be about middle of the pack if they were out in the 6+ months to live range.
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
User avatar
Fivelives
 
Posts: 3029
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Koatanga » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:14 pm

Fivelives wrote:I thought the countries with socialized healthcare skipped people up the waiting lists for emergent and urgent conditions? Sort of like the transplant list in the US - the closer you are to your expiration date, the higher up they bump you on the list. So a patient with lung cancer here waiting on a transplant would be next in line if they were down in the 2-4 weeks to live range, whereas another patient with lung cancer would be about middle of the pack if they were out in the 6+ months to live range.

It's entirely possible she could have been skipped up for surgery, but when the docs opened her up to do the surgery, they saw the cancer had speread, so they pretty much just closed her back up and said "sorry". Fortunately she got on some good drugs and some form of miracle happened, and she's in remission for now. I don't know that she would have had access to those drugs outside of private care in New Zealand - the docs have to stick to the medications approved by the government. Not just the ones that passed testing, but the ones deemed affordable and reasonable by the government.

Don't get me wrong - there are publicised cases of the government dropping over a million dollars for someone's medication when it proved necessary, so they're not going cheap on it, but it takes time to evaluate new medicines, whereas the stuff she got in the states was the next New and Exciting Cancer Drug.

But that's just one anecdote. When my father got lung cancer, he was an exec in a Fortune-500 company with top-flight insurance and the best care the US had to offer didn't save him.
Koatanga, Capnhammer, Shapely, Sultry, Boondoggle, Doominatrix of Greenstone - Dath'Remar
Koatanga
 
Posts: 1877
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:46 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:14 pm

Pharmaceutical companies do give away a lot of their drugs for free. If it's not covered by insurance, call the company that manufactures the drug - there's a damn good chance you can get it direct from them for no cost to you whatsoever.

http://www.rxassist.org/

From what I'm hearing, Obamacare will likely get rid of programs like that, which is going to trickle down to the rest of the world. Most of the New And Spectacular drugs come out of American R&D labs in Big Pharmaceutical Companies™, which they'll then give away to pretty much anyone who can demonstrate a need for them and an inability to cover the costs on their own, through programs like Rx Assist or any of the individual drug company "charity" programs. With the new Obamacare cost sharing requirements, I'm betting those programs will be axed first, which will screw the nonprofits who hand out AIDS medications and vaccines to third-world countries, and even developed countries that depend on the cheap supply of American drugs like lipitor and other ultra-commonly prescribed medications.

Other countries should be highly concerned about the state of American healthcare, especially when part of the cost is being shifted onto companies that export metric tons of needed medications every year.

I haven't heard a single coworker say anything good about Obamacare, even before it took full shape and got signed into law. Granted, most of it is hearsay at the moment since nobody I know has actually read the full 1000+ pages of the bill, but some of it that's been in the news is downright scary for the healthcare industry.

For instance, do you know how long it takes to get accredited through JCAHO (Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations)? The process takes around 10-12 months from the date of application, and is only good for 3 years. So 1/3rd of our time is spent in the accreditation process just so we can bill medicare/medicaid. It's also insanely cost prohibitive for companies like ours - the company that "owns" the hospital I'm working at right now has 52 hospitals in rural areas throughout the country, none of which top 200 beds. Mine has 153 beds, with a planned ER expansion kicking off this fall to add another 22 beds.

I don't know exactly how much it costs the company to get accredited (we've voluntarily "opted out" of the accreditation process, but more on that later*), but JCAHO accreditation costs for "chain hospitals" like the one I work for often reaches a significant portion of the gross billing. Under Obamacare, we would be required to participate in organizations like JCAHO, that count patient comment cards as more important toward the "gold standard" than mortality rates. If anyone's interested, I can go into more detail on just why JCAHO standards are an absolute joke, but I'll save that for another time.

So I myself don't know what to think about it. Is it a good thing? The idea is great. Who can argue with healthcare for everybody? It falls flat, like so many other things, on its implementation.

* While we don't participate in JCAHO or any other "overall" accrediting branch, all of our departments are individually accredited by specialists in their fields. Think of it as a department-by-department peer review process, rather than a one-size-fits-all standardization.
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
User avatar
Fivelives
 
Posts: 3029
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:18 pm

Brekkie wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:The problem there is that his crowning achievement isn't very popular, and sadly it seems like his Bain capital attacks are working. I say sadly, not because I want Romney to win, but because the attacks are stupid nonsense.

I don't see any way in which Obama loses or that it's even close.


Just for clarification, what are you referring to when you say "his crowning achievement"?

Because clearly it's none of the possible candidates I can think of, since none of them are unpopular.
Or are we still talking about the Health Care law?

Yes, the health care law.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9639
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:02 am

So, speaking of greedy rich people, I can't wait until the Libor scandal breaks in the Rolling Stone. This is going to absolutely ROCK the banking industry on it's hinges.
Over 50 trillion dollars stolen over the years due to blatant lying, enabled by the deregulation of wall street by the GOP in the 2000s.
Theckhd wrote:big numbers are the in-game way of expressing that Brekkie's penis is huge.
Brekkie
 
Posts: 924
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Shyrtandros » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:10 pm

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Not politics.. :|


anything but politics!
"Warning: AA posts may cause severe urges to buy or rent games you may not have been interested in, known about or would normally consider playing. If you experience sudden urges to purchase said games please consult your wallet, bank account or significant other to see if these games are right for you and your budget."
User avatar
Shyrtandros
 
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:54 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fivelives » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:16 pm

God forbid someone be discussing politics in a thread titled "Election 2012".
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
User avatar
Fivelives
 
Posts: 3029
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Jabari » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:03 pm

Fivelives wrote:God forbid someone be discussing politics in a thread titled "Election 2012".

Yeah, who's dumb idea was that anyway??!

Nanny Government at it again: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/07/06/a-judge-just-broke-the-internet/

Brekkie wrote:So, speaking of greedy rich people, I can't wait until the Libor scandal breaks in the Rolling Stone. This is going to absolutely ROCK the banking industry on it's hinges.
Over 50 trillion dollars stolen over the years due to blatant lying, enabled by the deregulation of wall street by the GOP in the 2000s.


While I appreciate what Taibbi does (and he does do good work on this stuff), you really need to take off your Democrat-colored glasses. Who, exactly, is in charge of the Department of Justice at the moment? You know, the folks who are supposed to prosecute this kind of crap? How many people do you think would try this kind of fraud if they were given an immediate life sentence when caught?

http://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/documents/Barclaysagreement.pdf

(Alternatively: What would the banks look like if the penalty for armed robbery was just returning half of what you stole?)

Fraud is just a business model now, and penalties are simply a slap on the hand (aka: cost of doing business) instead of any kind of actual deterrent.

Neither party seems to be even remotely interested in stopping the fraud, so we're either going to have to live with it or start throwing banksters off the tops of their skyscrapers. *shrug*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TYezSrzUUs

(YouTube is blocked at work - hopefully this is the right link. If not I'll correct it later...)
Last edited by Jabari on Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Most people want the wealth produced by a society with limited government distributed to them more generously by bigger government.
Jabari
 
Posts: 609
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:46 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:24 pm


That ruling, and to a lesser degree, the article that you linked reeks of a fundamental confusion about how the internet works.  Even if this ruling were to hold, I don't think the vast majority of websites would have to do anything.  The reason is because (for the most part) a website is merely a stream of bits, how those bits are rendered as an interface is actually in control of the end user.  There are browsers that have ADA settings large fonts, high contrasts, voice readers etc.  You could even write an "app for that" if you want to overlay a text version of streaming audio.

Netflix is slightly different in that they have a bit of a thick client running in the browser so they are controlling both ends to a degree.  That doesn't stop you from looking up the subtitles in various online sources though, there are even some that are timed so that you can sync them, plus the capability of the aforementioned app. Unlike a brick and mortar store that you can not physically modify, you can easily change the rendering of digital content. The onus for this ought to be at the client where possible.

Edit: Also given the sheer numbers of customers you can reach with the distance equation removed, a rather fundamental difference when compared to a physical store, does the judge really think that Netflix would not add CC to their movies if they could? The free market solution seems to be the best solution here.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9639
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Jabari » Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:46 pm

Oh sure, but since when did not understanding something ever stop the government? It would be ignored except for a few "special" cases anyway.

Put another way: "It would give the government the ability to selectively enforce this on anyone they want to beat down." (source: Ticker thread)


"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." - Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged)
Most people want the wealth produced by a society with limited government distributed to them more generously by bigger government.
Jabari
 
Posts: 609
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:46 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:59 pm

Jabari wrote:
Brekkie wrote:So, speaking of greedy rich people, I can't wait until the Libor scandal breaks in the Rolling Stone. This is going to absolutely ROCK the banking industry on it's hinges.
Over 50 trillion dollars stolen over the years due to blatant lying, enabled by the deregulation of wall street by the GOP in the 2000s.


While I appreciate what Taibbi does (and he does do good work on this stuff), you really need to take off your Democrat-colored glasses. Who, exactly, is in charge of the Department of Justice at the moment? You know, the folks who are supposed to prosecute this kind of crap? How many people do you think would try this kind of fraud if they were given an immediate life sentence when caught?

http://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/documents/Barclaysagreement.pdf

(Alternatively: What would the banks look like if the penalty for armed robbery was just returning half of what you stole?)

Fraud is just a business model now, and penalties are simply a slap on the hand (aka: cost of doing business) instead of any kind of actual deterrent.

Neither party seems to be even remotely interested in stopping the fraud, so we're either going to have to live with it or start throwing banksters off the tops of their skyscrapers. *shrug*


Oh I don't disagree, but what this boils down to is that Banks used to be required to provide detailed reports backing up and justifying their numbers. The GOP removed that requirement completely, and allowed them to simply say "take our word for it". No matter how draconian your enforcement is at that point, there is almost certainly going to be corruption.

The historical record shows that the best defense against corruption is not having someone physically looking over your shoulder, it's simply making records...for EVERYTHING. Recording every action and every decision and protecting those records from falsification. The best deterrent is the mindset that everything you do is being recorded somewhere, whereas a designated regulatory agency or law enforcement agency can just be bribed or in on the scum-baggery.

So while the DOJ is certainly incompetent, the fact that a decade or so ago the GOP utterly dismantled this transparency-deterrent is a million times more damning.
Theckhd wrote:big numbers are the in-game way of expressing that Brekkie's penis is huge.
Brekkie
 
Posts: 924
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:12 pm

Brekkie wrote:The GOP removed that requirement completely, and allowed them to simply say "take our word for it". No matter how draconian your enforcement is at that point, there is almost certainly going to be corruption.
Do you have a source for that? Not that I would put it past the GOP, but I just can't find anything to back that. As far as I can tell, the process has not changed at all since 1998, and it doesn't look like we really have much of a say in it anyhow since it's mostly occurring across the pond. Several regulatory bodies even investigated after the WSJ study and couldn't confirm those results. On top of that, british gov't has been implicated in this, so I'm not entirely sure what regulations here could have done when groups with real regulatory powers were potentially involved.

All of these processes need transparency, I don't think you'll get any disagreement with that notion. That is especially crucial in a free market sense.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9639
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Malthrax » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:57 am

Brekkie wrote:So, speaking of greedy rich people, I can't wait until the Libor scandal breaks in the Rolling Stone. This is going to absolutely ROCK the banking industry on it's hinges.
Over 50 trillion dollars stolen over the years due to blatant lying, enabled by the deregulation of wall street by the GOP in the 2000s.


Financial Deregulation (specfically the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933) has been a major lobbying point of "Big Banking" since the 1960's. Both sides of the aisle have had their hands in the proverbial cookie-jar and both sides are equally responsible for landing us in this debacle. Greed (and stupidity) knows no political boundaries.

These are the key events that led us to the current situation:

• 1994, Riegle-Neal Interstate Banking and Branching Efficiency Act – This bill eliminated previous restrictions on interstate banking and branching. It passed with broad bipartisan support.
• 1996, Fed Reinterprets Glass-Steagall – Federal Reserve reinterprets the Glass-Steagall Act several times, eventually allowing bank holding companies to earn up to 25 percent of their revenues in investment banking.
• 1998, Citicorp-Travelers Merger – Citigroup, Inc. merges a commercial bank with an insurance company that owns an investment bank to form the world’s largest financial services company.
• 1999, Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act – With support from Fed Chairman Greenspan, Treasury Secretary Rubin and his successor Lawrence Summers, the bill repeals the Glass-Steagall Act completely.
• 2000, Commodity Futures Modernization Act – Passed with support from the Clinton Administration, including Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers, and bi-partisan support in Congress. The bill prevented the Commodity Futures Trading Commission from regulating most over-the-counter derivative contracts, including credit default swaps.

http://www.openthegovernment.org/sites/ ... 009-07.pdf

All of them had bi-partisan support, and all of them happened under Bill Clinton's watch in the 1990's, not the 2000's.
User avatar
Malthrax
 
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:23 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Koatanga » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:28 pm

Not to derail, but to give an example of a Public Health System At Work:

Today my daughter was running around at Sunday School. She tripped and did a face-plant, breaking one of her front teeth at the gum line. She's only 7. We took her to the medics, where she got a temporary cap that should last between 1 and 5 years, which will then be replaced by another, etc. until she's 18, when she'll get a permanent cap.

Because it was an accident, it's completely covered by the government - no out-of-pocket for us now or in the future.

I am pretty sure if I was in the 'States that would only be coverred under a separate dental plan, which few people have anyway.
Koatanga, Capnhammer, Shapely, Sultry, Boondoggle, Doominatrix of Greenstone - Dath'Remar
Koatanga
 
Posts: 1877
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:46 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Arkham Asylum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest