Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Invisusira's playground

Moderators: Aergis, Invisusira

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:39 am

It was talked about quite a bit. We actually did spend bailout money on people's mortgages, it's called HAMP (and related programs). But no plan to give the people money, which of course we'd all prefer, would have actually solved the problem we were having at the time. The problem wasn't that the too big to fail banks were going bankrupt or had some long term insolvency issues, the problem was that they were running out of cash to loan, which has a massive ripple effect to businesses who rely on that capital. There was just no way to wait until a program could be implemented to give money to the people, and then wait and hope for them to make a couple of house payments so it made it back into the system. Also, once many of the larger banks weathered that particular storm with the TARP help, they did pay it back so the ultimate cost was a bit less. Not all banks have paid it back, but many did.

The "fat cat" bankers were actually doing what they were told by the government. Those loan formats had been approved by the government, they were put into an exchange (government term for someone is getting screwed but now you won't know who), and then reclassified by the government into a lower risk category. That caused the problem to spread beyond mortgages into investment banks. The gov't had incentivized home ownership enough that demand stayed high for a long time and so prices kept rising, and that was essentially the glue that kept this mess working...until it let loose and home prices began to fall and it all came crumbling down.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 6464
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:08 am

Brekkie wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:That might be the first time I've heard that hyperbole used with a decision that actually restrained government.


Unelected branch of government upholds the ability of elected branch of government to make laws.
Conservatives declare the death of the Republic.

p.s. Upon re-reading your statement, how did Citizens United RESTRAIN government? It UN-restrained the powerful, and gave them totally free reign over the governing process of the entire country.

This year, the Koch family alone has spent more than all the campaign contributions by individuals during the last Presidential election combined, for both candidates. A single family with more power than the entire people of the United States. And you call that restraining government?

If the Koch's had as much power as you claim, then there would be no dems in office, it's an absurd notion. To your point, obviously when the power moves from the government to the people, where it belongs, that is called restraining government. Again, it's the process not the outcome.

For instance, you can reasonably accomplish a more equitable system with a publicly funded campaign finances, the difficulty becomes determining who is eligible to receive the money, but private money is out everyone, and that's inherently fair and reasonable. The problem comes in when the government tries to pick and choose winners and losers. Despite the attempt to make things fair, it almost always makes things worse. Some special interest groups were unfettered, but labor unions and corporations were not. Individuals (like the Koch bros) were still able to spend btw, though certain types of political speech were banned in the days before the elections.

I don't know of anyone who has suggested that the government does not have the ability to make laws. Laws that make you buy a product that you don't want or need, yeah that's too much power and the Supreme court agreed with that too. They just also left a gigantic easily used loophole for accomplishing the same thing. Moreover, you aren't going to get corporations out of government through legislation, indeed it's legislation that has caused the problem. When you concentrate that much power in one place, corporations have a gigantic stake in it. The only way to get private interests out of unduly influencing government is to scale back and spread out its power to the people.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 6464
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:27 am

Fridmarr wrote:I don't know of anyone who has suggested that the government does not have the ability to make laws. Laws that make you buy a product that you don't want or need, yeah that's too much power and the Supreme court agreed with that too.


I don't see any reason why this same argument doesn't apply to taxes paying for the Fire Department. Or the Police. Or the Military. Or the Coast Guard. Or the Environmental Protection Agency. Or the Forestry Service. Or safety regulators on meat ("I'm a vegetarian!").

This is the thing I just do not, for the life of me, understand about the Libertarian mindset. You can't just pick and choose the shit that YOU want and need. And no rational, self-interested actor would EVER personally contribute to social functions like the Fire Department by choice, because of the Free Rider paradox. But you're sure as hell going to wish that the Fire Department exists. If war breaks out, you're sure as hell going to wish that the military is trained and equipped to a much higher standard than pure market forces would ever have a dream of allowing (dont get me started on merc companies like Xe/Blackwater).

And the irony of the whole thing is, you WILL actually use health care. At some point in your life, you will use health care. Every single person needs healthcare. But if only the ill are paying into the system, the whole thing becomes prohibitively expensive and People Die, preventably, for the crime of being poor. In America.
So mandating everyone contribute into the system is absolutely no different than mandating everyone contribute to the common defense, or to the safety of meat, or to the preservation of our environment. And the costs for EVERYONE become vastly cheaper.
Sure, you're a healthy person who DA GUBBMINT IS FORCING to pay. Cry me a river. I don't own a boat and am in no danger of drowning, but I pay for the Coast Guard. Because that's how SOCIETY WORKS.

It's funny, there are exactly ZERO Libertarians in countries with non-intrusive, low-power governments. You know what those kind of countries ARE filled with? Communists. Because anarchy is not some utopia of rational self interest. It fucking sucks and everybody, including the healthy, well off people who only have to buy what they need, suffers.

Also, funny how I have never, ever, ever met a Libertarian with a pre-existing condition.

They just also left a gigantic easily used loophole for accomplishing the same thing. Moreover, you aren't going to get corporations out of government through legislation, indeed it's legislation that has caused the problem. When you concentrate that much power in one place, corporations have a gigantic stake in it. The only way to get private interests out of unduly influencing government is to scale back and spread out its power to the people.


California is a perfect model of how terrible direct democracy is. Something like 80% of their budget is tied up in sacrosanct voter-initiatives.


As for money in politics, while money spent is not a direct indication of power, there is certainly a strong correlation, otherwise no one would bother spending money. I have no problem with the concept of spending money as speech. What I have a problem with is our leaders being solely beholden to rich backers, and nothing else mattering. My experiences working at Embassies and actually meeting these powerful VIPs, being present for their conversations, and seeing their interactions with plutocrats and CEOs at functions, has made me even more jaded in that regard.
I don't know how to solve this problem, but Citizens United was certainly, unambiguously a step backwards.
Theckhd wrote:big numbers are the in-game way of expressing that Brekkie's penis is huge.
Brekkie
 
Posts: 918
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:19 am

The difference is that they are government services, not private products.  When the government can compel me to buy into a private product then there is literally nothing that they can't compel me to do.  I have no problem contributing to medicaid for instance, but I do have a problem being forced to buy a product from a private group.  Talk about amazing potential for corporate abuse, just wait until that matures a bit, you'll be screaming about how corporations have corrupted health care and demand legislation to stop it...when this legislation caused it.  You think Jabari's electric car quip was a joke, but legislation of that ilk has been brewing for some time, and it will come because the same logic applies.   My joke about the size of your soda in NY wasn't a joke either, that's actual proposed legislation.  Absolutely everything you do can in some way be correlated to a shared cost.

We'll be sin taxxed to proper behavior determined by a large central government that you admit is controlled by corporations or at least unduly influenced by the wealthy, and you wonder why I get concerned as their power grows?  It amazes me that you can think that they are unduly influenced by such powers on one hand and on other declare that they should control your healthcare access.   The idea behind checks and balances isn't just what the government is actually doing now, but what is in its ability to do.  I'd rather not give them the rope to hang us all, rather than just hope that they actually don't use it.

I also reject your shared cost notion a bit.  I will use health care, but I may not use health insurance particularly of the type now required.  Health care and health insurance are not the same thing.  I don't want to be forced to pay a premium that covers birth control pills, viagra, and basic antibiotics etc when I can more efficiently handle those costs myself with a catastophic care plan and an HSA.  Those concepts are not new, and have been used successfully for generations.

I've said it repeatedly, I'm not a Libertarian.   I want government more local, where it can actually be held responsible, and is far more accountable, not anarchy.  I'm pretty sure your characterization of it is fairly inaccurate anyhow, but I don't have a dog in that fight and I couldn't care less.

Btw, my wife does have a chronic and costly preexisting condition, lupus. 
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 6464
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fivelives » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:33 pm

Ah. No, I'm not talking about giving Johnny Irresponsible the money to pay off their mortgages. I'm talking about telling banks "how much do you have in outstanding mortgage loans?" then giving them exactly that amount - not a penny more, not a penny less. It would've freed up their funds to loan to other people and had pretty much exactly the same effect as giving it to them to be used discretionally. Then they (the banks) could have applied for grants from the TARP funds left over after paying off outstanding mortgages.

So it wouldn't have been a case of your neighbor getting his debt cleared while you've still got yours, it would've been a clean slate for everybody who didn't have their homes paid off. Which is, let's face it, almost everyone that's IN a home that they "own" instead of some other situation, as a 30 year mortgage doesn't generally get paid off until people are about ready to retire.

Of course, it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback and say how shit SHOULD have been done.

Back on topic, Obama is only leading Romney in polls by 3 points. I'm not so sure anymore that Obama is a sure win for this election. I also find myself hoping that Obama wins this election - better the devil you know and all that.
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
User avatar
Fivelives
 
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:32 pm

The issue with that, as others have noted is fairness. There was some talk about plans to just have the government buy all the mortgages but not relieve people of their debt, and then allow proper restructuring. Here's an example...
http://www.correntewire.com/modest_prop ... xic_assets

The benefit is fairness and no money to the banks, but it's ultimately more expensive. Though even that is perhaps preferable.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 6464
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:31 pm

Fivelives wrote:Back on topic, Obama is only leading Romney in polls by 3 points. I'm not so sure anymore that Obama is a sure win for this election. I also find myself hoping that Obama wins this election - better the devil you know and all that.


Just wait until the debates. Obama has a lot of ammunition, most of the things Romney could attack Obama on Romney undermines HIMSELF with due to his past history, and Obama is just, in general, a far better orator.


In other news, check this out!
http://healthreform.kff.org/quizzes/hea ... -quiz.aspx
Theckhd wrote:big numbers are the in-game way of expressing that Brekkie's penis is huge.
Brekkie
 
Posts: 918
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Passionario » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:32 am

Brekkie wrote:Also, funny how I have never, ever, ever met a Libertarian with a pre-existing condition.


The late Robert Anton Wilson was one (at least, when he wasn't an anarchist) despite having suffered from polio as a child.
If you are not the flame, you're the fuel.
User avatar
Passionario
 
Posts: 2246
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:04 am

Brekkie wrote:
Fivelives wrote:Back on topic, Obama is only leading Romney in polls by 3 points. I'm not so sure anymore that Obama is a sure win for this election. I also find myself hoping that Obama wins this election - better the devil you know and all that.


Just wait until the debates. Obama has a lot of ammunition, most of the things Romney could attack Obama on Romney undermines HIMSELF with due to his past history, and Obama is just, in general, a far better orator.


In other news, check this out!
http://healthreform.kff.org/quizzes/hea ... -quiz.aspx


I'm not sure whether it would be smart for Obama to directly attack Romney. He might do better running a "clean" campaign focusing entirely on what he achieved during his first term.
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
User avatar
Fivelives
 
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:37 am

The problem there is that his crowning achievement isn't very popular, and sadly it seems like his Bain capital attacks are working. I say sadly, not because I want Romney to win, but because the attacks are stupid nonsense.

I don't see any way in which Obama loses or that it's even close.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 6464
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:28 am

Romney does a good enough job of embarrassing himself. If Obama starts in on him, then there's a chance that the conservatives (and a lot of independents, is my guess) will vote GOP out of spite, instead of quietly avoiding the polling places because Romney's a twat waffle.

If that happens, all bets are off. Let Romney embarrass himself, there's really no need to attack him.
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
User avatar
Fivelives
 
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby aureon » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:17 pm

Fridmarr wrote:The problem there is that his crowning achievement isn't very popular, and sadly it seems like his Bain capital attacks are working. I say sadly, not because I want Romney to win, but because the attacks are stupid nonsense.

I don't see any way in which Obama loses or that it's even close.

nonsense to a point, atleast about what gets reported.
Romney is a financial man before anything else, and that means profit before common interests, let's not forget that.

(And then come in my prejudices against mormons: I mean, you HAVE to be stupid to believe that shit?)
User avatar
aureon
 
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:41 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:32 pm

Believe what shit? The Mormon faith isn't any weirder than any other faiths.

Try this exercise:

On the pagan day celebrating the Egyptian god Ra, go forth and worship on your knees before an idol and participate in a ritual celebrating human sacrifice and cannibalism.

Sound bad? I just described Sunday services at the local church, where you kneel before an altar and partake in communion.

Every faith sounds weird to outsiders, and frankly it pisses me off that it's such a hot button issue during elections. For a country that believes (at least nominally) in a separation between church and state, we sure as hell put an awful lot of stock into what invisible man in the sky our politicians believe in.
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
User avatar
Fivelives
 
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Jabari » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:27 pm

Today we celebrate the ratification of the single most important political document written in human history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence

Please, go read the entire thing, and compare the grievances stated therein to what the United States Government is doing today.

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=208142
Most people want the wealth produced by a society with limited government distributed to them more generously by bigger government.
Jabari
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:46 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Koatanga » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:54 pm

The models for successful government-run healthcare systems are out there in other countries for the US to see and to mimic.

New Zealand isn't a perfect system, but we do have a pretty good one. If you get sick you can go to the doctor if you wish but you need to pay for the visit. It's around $80. If you do need medication, it's highly subsidised, so it's pretty afordable. You do have to get the generic stuff where it's available, but if you want to pay for the name brand, you can.

If you have an emergency-care situation, it's covered by the government, as are accidental injuries (sprains, breaks, cuts, etc.). If you need surgery for a chronic condition, you get put on a waiting list. If you want elective surgery you get put on a waiting list.

You can buy private insurance or make use of private hospitals. That way you can get your surgery without waiting for the list, if you can afford it.

It's not perfect by any means. I have a friend with lung cancer in the US who probably would have died had she relied on the NZ health care system because of her late diagnosis and the waiting-list thing. That would have sucked.

But no system is perfect, and waiting around for a perfect one won't fix any problems.
Un-Retired. Ish. Koatanga, Shapely, Sultry of Greenstone - Dath'Remar
Koatanga
 
Posts: 1664
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:46 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:06 pm

Fridmarr wrote:The problem there is that his crowning achievement isn't very popular, and sadly it seems like his Bain capital attacks are working. I say sadly, not because I want Romney to win, but because the attacks are stupid nonsense.

I don't see any way in which Obama loses or that it's even close.


Just for clarification, what are you referring to when you say "his crowning achievement"?

Because clearly it's none of the possible candidates I can think of, since none of them are unpopular.
Or are we still talking about the Health Care law?
Theckhd wrote:big numbers are the in-game way of expressing that Brekkie's penis is huge.
Brekkie
 
Posts: 918
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:47 pm

Koatanga wrote:It's not perfect by any means. I have a friend with lung cancer in the US who probably would have died had she relied on the NZ health care system because of her late diagnosis and the waiting-list thing. That would have sucked.

But no system is perfect, and waiting around for a perfect one won't fix any problems.


I thought the countries with socialized healthcare skipped people up the waiting lists for emergent and urgent conditions? Sort of like the transplant list in the US - the closer you are to your expiration date, the higher up they bump you on the list. So a patient with lung cancer here waiting on a transplant would be next in line if they were down in the 2-4 weeks to live range, whereas another patient with lung cancer would be about middle of the pack if they were out in the 6+ months to live range.
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
User avatar
Fivelives
 
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Koatanga » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:14 pm

Fivelives wrote:I thought the countries with socialized healthcare skipped people up the waiting lists for emergent and urgent conditions? Sort of like the transplant list in the US - the closer you are to your expiration date, the higher up they bump you on the list. So a patient with lung cancer here waiting on a transplant would be next in line if they were down in the 2-4 weeks to live range, whereas another patient with lung cancer would be about middle of the pack if they were out in the 6+ months to live range.

It's entirely possible she could have been skipped up for surgery, but when the docs opened her up to do the surgery, they saw the cancer had speread, so they pretty much just closed her back up and said "sorry". Fortunately she got on some good drugs and some form of miracle happened, and she's in remission for now. I don't know that she would have had access to those drugs outside of private care in New Zealand - the docs have to stick to the medications approved by the government. Not just the ones that passed testing, but the ones deemed affordable and reasonable by the government.

Don't get me wrong - there are publicised cases of the government dropping over a million dollars for someone's medication when it proved necessary, so they're not going cheap on it, but it takes time to evaluate new medicines, whereas the stuff she got in the states was the next New and Exciting Cancer Drug.

But that's just one anecdote. When my father got lung cancer, he was an exec in a Fortune-500 company with top-flight insurance and the best care the US had to offer didn't save him.
Un-Retired. Ish. Koatanga, Shapely, Sultry of Greenstone - Dath'Remar
Koatanga
 
Posts: 1664
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:46 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:14 pm

Pharmaceutical companies do give away a lot of their drugs for free. If it's not covered by insurance, call the company that manufactures the drug - there's a damn good chance you can get it direct from them for no cost to you whatsoever.

http://www.rxassist.org/

From what I'm hearing, Obamacare will likely get rid of programs like that, which is going to trickle down to the rest of the world. Most of the New And Spectacular drugs come out of American R&D labs in Big Pharmaceutical Companies™, which they'll then give away to pretty much anyone who can demonstrate a need for them and an inability to cover the costs on their own, through programs like Rx Assist or any of the individual drug company "charity" programs. With the new Obamacare cost sharing requirements, I'm betting those programs will be axed first, which will screw the nonprofits who hand out AIDS medications and vaccines to third-world countries, and even developed countries that depend on the cheap supply of American drugs like lipitor and other ultra-commonly prescribed medications.

Other countries should be highly concerned about the state of American healthcare, especially when part of the cost is being shifted onto companies that export metric tons of needed medications every year.

I haven't heard a single coworker say anything good about Obamacare, even before it took full shape and got signed into law. Granted, most of it is hearsay at the moment since nobody I know has actually read the full 1000+ pages of the bill, but some of it that's been in the news is downright scary for the healthcare industry.

For instance, do you know how long it takes to get accredited through JCAHO (Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations)? The process takes around 10-12 months from the date of application, and is only good for 3 years. So 1/3rd of our time is spent in the accreditation process just so we can bill medicare/medicaid. It's also insanely cost prohibitive for companies like ours - the company that "owns" the hospital I'm working at right now has 52 hospitals in rural areas throughout the country, none of which top 200 beds. Mine has 153 beds, with a planned ER expansion kicking off this fall to add another 22 beds.

I don't know exactly how much it costs the company to get accredited (we've voluntarily "opted out" of the accreditation process, but more on that later*), but JCAHO accreditation costs for "chain hospitals" like the one I work for often reaches a significant portion of the gross billing. Under Obamacare, we would be required to participate in organizations like JCAHO, that count patient comment cards as more important toward the "gold standard" than mortality rates. If anyone's interested, I can go into more detail on just why JCAHO standards are an absolute joke, but I'll save that for another time.

So I myself don't know what to think about it. Is it a good thing? The idea is great. Who can argue with healthcare for everybody? It falls flat, like so many other things, on its implementation.

* While we don't participate in JCAHO or any other "overall" accrediting branch, all of our departments are individually accredited by specialists in their fields. Think of it as a department-by-department peer review process, rather than a one-size-fits-all standardization.
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
User avatar
Fivelives
 
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:18 pm

Brekkie wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:The problem there is that his crowning achievement isn't very popular, and sadly it seems like his Bain capital attacks are working. I say sadly, not because I want Romney to win, but because the attacks are stupid nonsense.

I don't see any way in which Obama loses or that it's even close.


Just for clarification, what are you referring to when you say "his crowning achievement"?

Because clearly it's none of the possible candidates I can think of, since none of them are unpopular.
Or are we still talking about the Health Care law?

Yes, the health care law.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 6464
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:02 am

So, speaking of greedy rich people, I can't wait until the Libor scandal breaks in the Rolling Stone. This is going to absolutely ROCK the banking industry on it's hinges.
Over 50 trillion dollars stolen over the years due to blatant lying, enabled by the deregulation of wall street by the GOP in the 2000s.
Theckhd wrote:big numbers are the in-game way of expressing that Brekkie's penis is huge.
Brekkie
 
Posts: 918
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Shyrtandros » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:10 pm

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Not politics.. :|


anything but politics!
"Warning: AA posts may cause severe urges to buy or rent games you may not have been interested in, known about or would normally consider playing. If you experience sudden urges to purchase said games please consult your wallet, bank account or significant other to see if these games are right for you and your budget."
User avatar
Shyrtandros
 
Posts: 628
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:54 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fivelives » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:16 pm

God forbid someone be discussing politics in a thread titled "Election 2012".
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
User avatar
Fivelives
 
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Election 2012

Postby Jabari » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:03 pm

Fivelives wrote:God forbid someone be discussing politics in a thread titled "Election 2012".

Yeah, who's dumb idea was that anyway??!

Nanny Government at it again: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/07/06/a-judge-just-broke-the-internet/

Brekkie wrote:So, speaking of greedy rich people, I can't wait until the Libor scandal breaks in the Rolling Stone. This is going to absolutely ROCK the banking industry on it's hinges.
Over 50 trillion dollars stolen over the years due to blatant lying, enabled by the deregulation of wall street by the GOP in the 2000s.


While I appreciate what Taibbi does (and he does do good work on this stuff), you really need to take off your Democrat-colored glasses. Who, exactly, is in charge of the Department of Justice at the moment? You know, the folks who are supposed to prosecute this kind of crap? How many people do you think would try this kind of fraud if they were given an immediate life sentence when caught?

http://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/documents/Barclaysagreement.pdf

(Alternatively: What would the banks look like if the penalty for armed robbery was just returning half of what you stole?)

Fraud is just a business model now, and penalties are simply a slap on the hand (aka: cost of doing business) instead of any kind of actual deterrent.

Neither party seems to be even remotely interested in stopping the fraud, so we're either going to have to live with it or start throwing banksters off the tops of their skyscrapers. *shrug*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TYezSrzUUs

(YouTube is blocked at work - hopefully this is the right link. If not I'll correct it later...)
Last edited by Jabari on Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Most people want the wealth produced by a society with limited government distributed to them more generously by bigger government.
Jabari
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:46 am

Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:24 pm


That ruling, and to a lesser degree, the article that you linked reeks of a fundamental confusion about how the internet works.  Even if this ruling were to hold, I don't think the vast majority of websites would have to do anything.  The reason is because (for the most part) a website is merely a stream of bits, how those bits are rendered as an interface is actually in control of the end user.  There are browsers that have ADA settings large fonts, high contrasts, voice readers etc.  You could even write an "app for that" if you want to overlay a text version of streaming audio.

Netflix is slightly different in that they have a bit of a thick client running in the browser so they are controlling both ends to a degree.  That doesn't stop you from looking up the subtitles in various online sources though, there are even some that are timed so that you can sync them, plus the capability of the aforementioned app. Unlike a brick and mortar store that you can not physically modify, you can easily change the rendering of digital content. The onus for this ought to be at the client where possible.

Edit: Also given the sheer numbers of customers you can reach with the distance equation removed, a rather fundamental difference when compared to a physical store, does the judge really think that Netflix would not add CC to their movies if they could? The free market solution seems to be the best solution here.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 6464
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

PreviousNext

Return to Arkham Asylum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Delphineas and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Delphineas and 1 guest