Kingdom Tower

[Rachmaninoff]

Thoughts?

[Snake-Aes]

I want to build its self-maintaining systems.

[cerwillis]

Anyone well versed in fluid dynamics wanna do the math on how much energy it would take to get a gallon of water up to the top to flush a toilet?

[Snake-Aes]

Hmm... start with the minimum possible work. It's like 7kJ.

[cerwillis]

So by my conversion 5,163 Ft Lbs of force. I'm no engineer, but that seems high. (pun intended)

[Snake-Aes]

That's gravity's variation of potential alone. Actually pumping the water up there will include lots of other stuff like viscosity and the very much non-conservative work of moving things around mechanically. I have the slight feeling I should have used weight instead of mass on the calculation too, which would multiply it for another 9,81.

[Rachmaninoff]

Are you assuming the water is at ground level?

[Snake-Aes]

That would be from the base of the tower, yes.

[bldavis]

the water will be most likely at least 1-2 stories underground, plus you have to deal with the size/materials of the piping, as well as the total vertical hieght the water has to go up, plus the total piping distance..

oh and every pipe size change, every bend in the pipe, etc...

[Snake-Aes]

the water will be most likely at least 1-2 stories underground, plus you have to deal with the size/materials of the piping, as well as the total vertical hieght the water has to go up, plus the total piping distance..

oh and every pipe size change, every bend in the pipe, etc...

Yes, thus why I said the minimum possible work. That'd be gravitational potential.
weight * displacement along gravity's field lines. From 0 to 1600 that's 1600*3,78*9,81 very roughly assuming that 1l = 1kg of water. That's 59k Newtons x Meter, or 59kJ.

Sadly, I'm still too early into my fluid mechanics studies to be able to tell just how much energy would be wasted on movement not along gravity's direction, viscosity, variations of temperature and height and so on. Though the latter 2 ought to be small if not ignorable.

[Brekkie]

Note: There is already a Kingdom Tower in RIYADH, Saudi Arabia, which is the tallest building in that city. This one in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia appears to be an attempt to play "my penis is bigger", only using buildings.

[Brekkie]

the water will be most likely at least 1-2 stories underground, plus you have to deal with the size/materials of the piping, as well as the total vertical hieght the water has to go up, plus the total piping distance..

oh and every pipe size change, every bend in the pipe, etc...

Jeddah has no underground water piping, nor any sewer or rain drainage system. Most water in Saudi Arabia is captured and stored in water towers or piped in above ground from coastal desalinization plants.
Not sure how this would affect your calculations.

[Melathys]

notice the top of the tower is for power generation. I wonder if that means water would be pulled up vs pumped up, and if that makes any kind of difference.

[cerwillis]

notice the top of the tower is for power generation. I wonder if that means water would be pulled up vs pumped up, and if that makes any kind of difference.

Unless they're harvesting the water from the sky, it's gonna have to be pumped up there somehow. Whether the pumping system is at the top or bottom wouldn't matter in terms of the energy needed.

I think.

[bldavis]

MUST....
RESIST....
URGE....
TO ....
DIG....
UP.....
HYDRAULICS....
BOOK....

GAH!
*rushes off to bookcase*