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Stupidity at its finest

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Re: Stupidity at its finest

Postby Njall » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:54 am

Tsk. It's obvious they were Huntards.
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Re: Stupidity at its finest

Postby Trav » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:48 pm

Njall wrote:
Question: The man should be master of the house.
US answer: Agree 65%
Canadian answer: Agree 25%

Question: It is not possible to be a moral person without religious beliefs.
US anser: Agree 70%
Canadian answer: Agree: 30%

Questions and explorations of nuances proceeded from there. Statistically, these are entirely different populations.


Wow...these answers do not match up with my personal experiences at all (which is admittedly subjective)... makes me want to take a closer look at the research methods involved. I do wonder just how spread out and varied the questioning was for this...granted NJ is a much more socially liberal area than, say, the Bible Belt, and the people I do know from other areas tend to be intelligent, educated young adults.

I'd be curious as to seeing how a study like that, if valid, shows changes ever 5-10 years.

tl;dr: Fuck the South for making us look like Hicks in front of Canada : p
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Re: Stupidity at its finest

Postby Njall » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:56 pm

Trav wrote:
Njall wrote:
Question: The man should be master of the house.
US answer: Agree 65%
Canadian answer: Agree 25%

Question: It is not possible to be a moral person without religious beliefs.
US anser: Agree 70%
Canadian answer: Agree: 30%

Questions and explorations of nuances proceeded from there. Statistically, these are entirely different populations.


Wow...these answers do not match up with my personal experiences at all (which is admittedly subjective)... makes me want to take a closer look at the research methods involved. I do wonder just how spread out and varied the questioning was for this...granted NJ is a much more socially liberal area than, say, the Bible Belt, and the people I do know from other areas tend to be intelligent, educated young adults.

I'd be curious as to seeing how a study like that, if valid, shows changes ever 5-10 years.

tl;dr: Fuck the South for making us look like Hicks in front of Canada : p


The research data is available at Envirionics. They also have the basic questionnaire available. One of the findings (which wouldn't have surprised Talleyrand back in the 1850s) was that the US showed the same sorts of cultural groupings that one might observe in separate countries. Each were statistically distinct populations that held widely varying social values. The US generated 7 of these but, much to the author's surprise, the Canadians did not have much statistical difference in the results as a population - even between such 'differing' groups as Albertans and Quebequois(!).
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Re: Stupidity at its finest

Postby Trav » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:22 pm

Njall wrote:
Trav wrote:
Njall wrote:
Question: The man should be master of the house.
US answer: Agree 65%
Canadian answer: Agree 25%

Question: It is not possible to be a moral person without religious beliefs.
US anser: Agree 70%
Canadian answer: Agree: 30%

Questions and explorations of nuances proceeded from there. Statistically, these are entirely different populations.


Wow...these answers do not match up with my personal experiences at all (which is admittedly subjective)... makes me want to take a closer look at the research methods involved. I do wonder just how spread out and varied the questioning was for this...granted NJ is a much more socially liberal area than, say, the Bible Belt, and the people I do know from other areas tend to be intelligent, educated young adults.

I'd be curious as to seeing how a study like that, if valid, shows changes ever 5-10 years.

tl;dr: Fuck the South for making us look like Hicks in front of Canada : p


The research data is available at Envirionics. They also have the basic questionnaire available. One of the findings (which wouldn't have surprised Talleyrand back in the 1850s) was that the US showed the same sorts of cultural groupings that one might observe in separate countries. Each were statistically distinct populations that held widely varying social values. The US generated 7 of these but, much to the author's surprise, the Canadians did not have much statistical difference in the results as a population - even between such 'differing' groups as Albertans and Quebequois(!).


Truly fascinating and makes total sense. I'll have to read more on this.

Also, yay for additional irony added to my previous joke! Win!
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Re: Stupidity at its finest

Postby Njall » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:31 pm

Trav wrote:
Truly fascinating and makes total sense. I'll have to read more on this.

Also, yay for additional irony added to my previous joke! Win!



The study was taken using a sampling of approximately 5,000 Americans - which is a large enough sample size to allow statistically significant results. The Canadian sample was a larger, proportionately, being about 2,000 Canadians. The book' appendices contains the methodologies used and the statistical models generated. All in all, a fascinating read.

Actually,the South came off as a society that valued Authority and Status/Security far more than other Americans. All in all, an interesting read. Sex in the Snow is better though. :lol:
Last edited by Njall on Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stupidity at its finest

Postby bldavis » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:40 pm

Njall wrote: Sex in the Snow is better though. :lol:

might have to try thi.....
oh your talking about a book
:shock: :oops: :?
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Re: Stupidity at its finest

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:58 pm

Well they are a left wing think tank, expecting a different result would be like asking the Cato Institute to produce a pro Obama care result.

I mean their roadmap is laughable, I could predict the percentage results quite accurately based on the proceeding category description. It might as well have said, non Democrats are uneducated, sad, poor, hateful people, who hate you and hate their lives. Those that manage some modicum of success are simply lucky enough to have been born into a solid family, but they are still close-minded bigots, who selfishly only ever think of themselves, and battle deep self esteem issues by projecting control imagery through materialism.

Then occasionally the analysis is followed by a strategy on how the Democratic party can stymie the Republican party's influence in these groups. I mean the imagery of their descriptions of these groups ought to make any intellectually honest person blush.

Good grief certainly we can do better than regurgitating this crap?
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Re: Stupidity at its finest

Postby Njall » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:02 pm

Y'know, its funny if it wasn't so sad, Fridmarr. You are always saying that studies and research trumps anecdotal evidence. Yet, whenever someone quotes a study that conflicts with your world view, suddenly it is invalidated by your anecdotes.

You can't have it both ways, not without losing all credibility.
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Re: Stupidity at its finest

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:08 pm

Njall wrote:Y'know, its funny if it wasn't so sad, Fridmarr. You are always saying that studies and research trumps anecdotal evidence. Yet, whenever someone quotes a study that conflicts with your world view, suddenly it is invalidated by your anecdotes.

You can't have it both ways, not without losing all credibility.

Well you have to consider the source of the study for anything, and try to apply some objectivity to it. I mean if NAMBLA did a study about the safety of pedophiles as baby sitters, I don't think it would be taken all that seriously. But more to the point, your characterization of me is incorrect, I'm far more skeptical of studies than anecdotal evidence particularly for subjective matters like politics, because there is frequently a bias.

And come on, read that roadmap and tell me there's no bias there?
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Re: Stupidity at its finest

Postby Njall » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:12 pm

Fridmarr wrote:
Njall wrote:Y'know, its funny if it wasn't so sad, Fridmarr. You are always saying that studies and research trumps anecdotal evidence. Yet, whenever someone quotes a study that conflicts with your world view, suddenly it is invalidated by your anecdotes.

You can't have it both ways, not without losing all credibility.

Well you have to consider the source of the study for anything, and try to apply some objectivity to it. I mean if NAMBLA did a study about the safety of pedophiles as baby sitters, I don't think it would be taken all that seriously. But more to the point, your characterization of me is incorrect, I'm far more skeptical of studies than anecdotal evidence particularly for subjective matters like politics, because there is frequently a bias.


I only know you by what you type. I don't know your inner turmoil and conflict that brings you to the value judgments you make and social values you espouse, sorry.

To be blunt, some of your rather personal comments in the climate change debate soured me deeply on the degree of scientific detachment you may be able to bring to bear to a discussion that conflicts with your world view.

I am no longer young. I know now that a) I do not know everything and b) things change. I'll leave it at that. As noted in the Frustrations thread, I have other, less pleasant fish to fry.
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Re: Stupidity at its finest

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:36 pm

Njall wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:
Njall wrote:Y'know, its funny if it wasn't so sad, Fridmarr. You are always saying that studies and research trumps anecdotal evidence. Yet, whenever someone quotes a study that conflicts with your world view, suddenly it is invalidated by your anecdotes.

You can't have it both ways, not without losing all credibility.

Well you have to consider the source of the study for anything, and try to apply some objectivity to it. I mean if NAMBLA did a study about the safety of pedophiles as baby sitters, I don't think it would be taken all that seriously. But more to the point, your characterization of me is incorrect, I'm far more skeptical of studies than anecdotal evidence particularly for subjective matters like politics, because there is frequently a bias.


I only know you by what you type. I don't know your inner turmoil and conflict that brings you to the value judgments you make and social values you espouse, sorry.

To be blunt, some of your rather personal comments in the climate change debate soured me deeply on the degree of scientific detachment you may be able to bring to bear to a discussion that conflicts with your world view.

I am no longer young. I know now that a) I do not know everything and b) things change. I'll leave it at that. As noted in the Frustrations thread, I have other, less pleasant fish to fry.

Climate debate? I don't really remember engaging in a climate debate, but I make a lot of posts here, and I also often argue as a devils advocate. But on environmental issues we are probably not much different, we probably differ on how to solve them. I'm fairly conservative on economic issues and just general government being out of peoples business, but I have some fairly liberal social beliefs. I fight very hard to stay objective and open minded and therefore try to avoid sources that tend to bend things to a preconceived notion.
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Re: Stupidity at its finest

Postby Brekkie » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:36 pm

To be blunt, some of your rather personal comments in the climate change debate soured me deeply on the degree of scientific detachment you may be able to bring to bear to a discussion that conflicts with your world view.


What thread was this? I don't remember us having a climate change discussion here. If so I'd like to read it.
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Re: Stupidity at its finest

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:41 pm

Ok Njall, here is an objective and unbiased study that proves Americans and Canadians are pretty similar. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScyxtU4iASM
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Re: Stupidity at its finest

Postby Skwigelf » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:19 am

Njall wrote:
masterpoobaa wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:I could have a long conversation with almost any Canadian and not realize they are Canadian and vice versa.


Yet if you call a Canadian an American they really don't like that. :P


Saw a guy get knifed in a bar over it when I was working up North. Bunch of hunters up from the US were being obnoxious and doing the "you guys are just like us but not as good" thing. The locals, mostly lumberjacks and miners, didn't take too well to it. Things went downhill from there. We got the heck out.

That said, I deeply miss working as a field geologist in the gold belt around Kirkland Lake. The money was good and the locals were very friendly indeed. They always hope that exploration finds something good enough to mine. Jobs and all that.



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Re: Stupidity at its finest

Postby Rachmaninoff » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:44 am

Njall wrote:The research data is available at Envirionics. They also have the basic questionnaire available. One of the findings (which wouldn't have surprised Talleyrand back in the 1850s) was that the US showed the same sorts of cultural groupings that one might observe in separate countries. Each were statistically distinct populations that held widely varying social values. The US generated 7 of these but, much to the author's surprise, the Canadians did not have much statistical difference in the results as a population - even between such 'differing' groups as Albertans and Quebequois(!).


this is one reason why I don't think the union will always be. both texas (and now I know after this tread) and alaska have made mention that they want to separate from the union if things continue the way the are going. there are such vast differences in culture, values, beliefs, political views, and even language, and you could even say just that on the east coast. I doubt it would happen in my lifetime but it will happen someday. I know early on in US history that each state had printed off its own currency and that would again prove to be a dilemma and one reason why some states would be hesitant to do that.
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